First I said I'd NEVER have a grey in my breeding program ... - The Horse Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-30-2011, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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First I said I'd NEVER have a grey in my breeding program ...

And then I ended up with a grey stallion ...

And then I said (probably as recently as the last week!) that I'd never have pinto in my program either ...

Here is my new mare - Art Dancer by Art Deco out of a TB mare, approved Old NA with a score of 105. I LOVE this mare - she is so kind and has jaw dropping movement on her and is very well put together as well

This mare got her head caught in a fence as a weanling / yearling - long time ago, and she has a fused vertebrae in her neck (or fused vertebrae - plural - not really sure) and as a result, she has atrophied muscles from her poll on down. So - while her neck / topline may not look like it possibly should, its injury related and not conformational at all. She cant turn her head at the poll to look at you - she needs to pivot her entire body instead. So - while she was completely rideable



I think the general consensus was that she tries so hard to please - its not fair to ask her to come into a frame and bend through the poll, when its physically uncomfortable or impossible for her to do so ...

Here are the pictures I just took of her this morning. I thought that was was longer in the back than ideal but she really ISNT that long at all - I think it was her weight and how she wasn standing in previous pictures ... and she has a phenomenal trot in a very lofty, animated, suspended way ...

And she has a lovely shoulder as well - I think its just the way the white cuts it on the opposite side doesnt make it look as good as it does from this side ...











Oh! And the bare spot on her bum was where Old NA wanted to see her brand ... and she needed to be clipped ...

So - I am debating breeding her to Guaranteed Gold (which will make the foal 3/4 TB, 50% chance of tobiano and 100% chance of a dilute colour) or to Winner - 50% chance of tobiano and 100% chance of grey as he is HZ grey and 50% TB with the balance a mix of Hanoverian / Trakehner / Arab. I thought initially that she needed a shorter coupled stallion so was going to go with GG but now I am not so sure

Here is Guaranteed Gold:



and here is Winner:



GG would produce more of a hunter / event foal and Winner a jumper or hunter foal - possibly event as well.

If this was your mare and your decision - who would you go with and why??

Thanks a bunch!

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post #2 of 10 Old 01-30-2011, 11:43 AM
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She is BEAUTIFUL! I really like GG... lol

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post #3 of 10 Old 01-30-2011, 12:39 PM
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I've always liked Gold's build better, but they're both gorgeous. Congrats on the new mare!
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post #4 of 10 Old 01-30-2011, 06:05 PM
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Congrats on your new mare...she is gorgeous! I think she would cross well with either of your studs they are both so lovely....

Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?-Edgar Allen Poe
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post #5 of 10 Old 01-30-2011, 06:37 PM
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The mare is nice.
She would have fused vertibrae as in at least 2vertibra fused together! thats what fusing is, generaly because the disc in between the vertibrae is damaged.

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Originally Posted by TrueColours View Post

So - I am debating breeding her to Guaranteed Gold (which will make the foal 3/4 TB, 50% chance of tobiano and 100% chance of a dilute colour) or to Winner - 50% chance of tobiano and 100% chance of grey as he is HZ grey and 50% TB with the balance a mix of Hanoverian / Trakehner / Arab. I thought initially that she needed a shorter coupled stallion so was going to go with GG but now I am not so sure
Think you need to redo your maths as whilst you can get a tobiano with a dilute on top you realy cant get tobiano ontop of grey as Grey is a dominant gene

If he gives 100% grey (i.e is Homozygous) then you will get a grey foal!

RIDE your horse FORWARDS and keep him STRAIGHT

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post #6 of 10 Old 01-30-2011, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faye View Post
Think you need to redo your maths as whilst you can get a tobiano with a dilute on top you realy cant get tobiano ontop of grey as Grey is a dominant gene

If he gives 100% grey (i.e is Homozygous) then you will get a grey foal!
The foal might well be grey, but it can still be tobiano. Grey is like a blanket - it covers what the horse is. You will be still able to see that a fully white grey is still pinto when they are wet, too. Plus the foal will be hetero for grey, so can pass the tobiano on to it's foals, with a chance that they won't also get the grey gene.

Mods, grant me the serenity to see the opinions I cannot change, courage to change the ones that should change, and the wisdom to spot the trolls.
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post #7 of 10 Old 01-30-2011, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Chiilaa is correct and remember that the foal would be born black or chestnut or bay or whatever its base coat color would be and then slowly over time it would eventually grey out. And then it has the 50% chance of inheriting the tobiano pattern as well from its dam

Ive looked up grey tobiano's and they look lovely before they start to grey out and then kind of funny and splotchy as they are lightening and then once they do you can only see the pattern once you wet them down ...

Quote:
She would have fused vertibrae as in at least 2vertibra fused together! thats what fusing is, generaly because the disc in between the vertibrae is damaged
True! Silly me ... thanks for stating the obvious!

I think I have my mind up and then I waffle and swing the other way. There IS no clear right or wrong on this one I dont think!

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Unique coloured TB's & Sport Horses. Standing Guaranteed Gold-16.1hh cremello TB stallion - AQHA, ApHC & APHA listed - CSHA Bronze Premium stallion
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post #8 of 10 Old 01-30-2011, 07:33 PM
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im going with Winner bc if he passes away any time soon you will have a baby by him. and it would be one heck of a jumper

~Erin~
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post #9 of 10 Old 01-30-2011, 07:56 PM
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For me I would look very very criticly at your mare. Pick out her features that are not brilliant, for example she has a good shoulder but it could be better and she is slightly upright in her pasturns at the front. So pick the stallion with the best shoulder and the best front limbs to balance this out and make he foal have the greater chance of being even better then his/her mum.

Then confocritique the stallion, for example winner is slightly longer in the back then GG. now your mare has a good back but you wouldnt want it any longer so on that point I would go for GG. however Winners neck is better the GG's

Once you have both stallion critiques you can compare them with the critique on your mare and pick the best one for your mare in order to produce the best conformed foal you can for the discipline you want to aim the foal at!

RIDE your horse FORWARDS and keep him STRAIGHT

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post #10 of 10 Old 01-31-2011, 06:28 PM
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I'm trying not to be biased here as a diehard GG fan, however I do genuinely believe he would match the best with this mare. He has the thicker and more balanced build which would compliment her nicely - I think you would be compounding some of the same faults with her and Winner, and improving on them with her and GG.

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