Frame... Splash... Sabino... - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 07-27-2010, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Frame... Splash... Sabino...

Quick question...

If my mare tests negative for both sabino and frame, can I safely assume she's splash? Or are there other possibilities?




This is her, BTW...



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post #2 of 22 Old 07-27-2010, 10:42 PM
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Seeing as how splash is the gene most commonly associated with blue eyes, I would say yes based only on what we discussed before by way of possibility of an unidentified sabino gene. I do believe though, they've already (or come close) to proving that blue eyes are a direct cause of either splash or frame. I take that to mean that as of this point in time, every horse they've ever tested with blue eyes has shown positive for splash and/or frame.

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post #3 of 22 Old 07-27-2010, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj View Post
Seeing as how splash is the gene most commonly associated with blue eyes, I would say yes based only on what we discussed before by way of possibility of an unidentified sabino gene. I do believe though, they've already (or come close) to proving that blue eyes are a direct cause of either splash or frame. I take that to mean that as of this point in time, every horse they've ever tested with blue eyes has shown positive for splash and/or frame.
That's exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you!
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post #4 of 22 Old 07-27-2010, 11:18 PM
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Ooh I so need a paint lesson. I so don't get it. Like our mare is solid colored paint... Bald face, blue eye...solid body.
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post #5 of 22 Old 07-28-2010, 11:10 AM
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Ooh I so need a paint lesson. I so don't get it. Like our mare is solid colored paint... Bald face, blue eye...solid body.
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Often people only look at the physical characteristics and not the genetics at work. To most people, a pinto is a pinto, end of story. If a horse doesn't have a white patch other then on legs or face, it's not a pinto, right? That's when you get people not looking beyond to the genetics.

It's much like a chestnut horse and how s/he "hides" agouti. A horse can only reproduce what it HAS, genetically speaking. When you breed a chestnut to a black, you can only get a bay (agouti) foal if that chestnut is hiding agouti. Same as pinto - a solid horse can "hide" a gene that causes pinto or display it so minimally that it takes an experienced individual in equine genetics to spot it.

Take your mare - they've done enough experiments that they've figured out ONLY two pinto genes (splashed white & frame overo) cause blue eyes. So if your horse is solid with blue eyes, doesn't matter what you see, she IS a pinto, on the inside anyway! Or a better way to think of it, even if she looks solid to you, she DOES carry the splash gene and CAN produce a fully marked loud splashy white pinto foal!

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post #6 of 22 Old 07-28-2010, 01:16 PM
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Ok now...what's the difference in a paint and a pinto? I'm totally not trying to be ignorant...I love to learn, even at my 35 year old age, about new things. I called and asked for her papers again today, bc I want to know her background...we'll see.
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post #7 of 22 Old 07-28-2010, 01:24 PM
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Paint is a breed and pinto is just a color term. As far as I'm concerned though, for description purposes, the terms "pinto", "skewbald" and "piebald" should be thrown out the window.

For example, I would never tell people I have a pinto Paint. I would tell people I have a black tovero Paint. To be even more technical, I have a black tobiano splashed white Paint, but shortening it to tovero is a little easier and let's people know she's displaying tobiano and at least 1 of 3 overo patterns.

Paint as a breed is a little confusing though, because the term was basically invented to describe Quarter Horses with pinto markings. As time has progressed, we've developed the Paint breed to be moreso it's OWN breed as opposed to just a QH with pinto markings. I believe the AQHA is also taking steps to acknowledge the difference and start allowing pinto QH's to be registered instead of lumping them in with Paint's.

For example, my Paint filly is mostly Quarter Horse bloodlines. She has ancestors that were only registered as Paint because they were QH's that suddenly displayed pinto markings.

And now of course you can have solid Paints as well, although in a lot of cases there's a GOOD chance they're hiding a pinto gene anyway and it will show on future generations.

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post #8 of 22 Old 07-28-2010, 01:52 PM
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Thanks so mch for all the good information. I gotta get a book!!
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post #9 of 22 Old 07-28-2010, 03:36 PM
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I don't think they should do away w/ the term pinto, I have 2 pinto minis, I could call them tobiano and frame overo, but it's much easy just to say they are pintos. If it's important to mention their patterns that's different, but generally it's just easier to not have to explain.
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post #10 of 22 Old 07-28-2010, 06:34 PM
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The words pinto and paint have both been used in Americal for 100+ years to refer to horses with more or less large spots... the proper nouns (capitalized) Pinto and Paint denote horses registered with either the American Paint Horse Association (APHA) or the Pinto Horse Association (PtHA). Both registries have color requirements for regular registration, both registries have a section for registering solids, and both have bloodline and/or type restrictions, with APHA being much more specific and strict.

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