Is this a good racehorse? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 02:20 PM
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Riding horse.

Based on EasttoWest's excellent research, the real reason this horse was taken on a mechanic's lein by the barn owner is that he could no longer race and win enough to recover his fees and expenses.

Flogging a 7 year old around cheap tracks in claimers is a miserable experience for pretty much everybody involved, esp. the horse!, and bound to be a money losing
proposition.

Unless you have a close personal friend who 1.) has a trainer's license 2.) likes to run horses off of the fram 3.) is willing to take this prospect on "on the cuff" AND the horse is sound, I wouldn't touch it.

I also wouldn't touch it if you're more than 2 - 3 hours drive from a cheap track. (You can run horses off the farm from a farther distance, but transport costs will mitigate any winnings.)
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post #12 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 02:34 PM
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After all that was said - and it was all great advise - when you pay your $300, do you get his JC papers and are they restricted so that he can't race?

One other thing to consider is that if it was feasible to race him and make money or at least break even, he would most likely never have been given up.

On the other hand, a sound TB of his age for $300 is one heck of a nice deal for a riding horse.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just explaining why I'm right.

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post #13 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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hi...you all have very good points!

He was raced last summer several times and apparently placed a few times. He is seven and yes, comes with JC papers which the lady has signed over in hand and they are not on restriction. I already have two trainers (one licensed at the track) that have agreed to help me completely recondition him. He is boarded about eh.....5 miles maybe from that track so that wouldn't be a problem.

And I suppose...if i got him...and i raced him this summer and it was a flop I could always try him for dressage which is what my real chosen discipline is..lol. He is pretty big and once he is in shape I think he will make a really nice horse.

So his bloodlines really aren't all that...or they might be okay?

thanks again for all your wonderful help and input everyone!
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post #14 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 04:05 PM
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>>>> And I suppose...if i got him...and i raced him this summer and it was a flop I could always try him for dressage which is what my real chosen discipline is..lol. He is pretty big and once he is in shape I think he will make a really nice horse.

It sounds like you have a good situation for trying out your interest in racing-- being so close, having training friends, etc, so your invenstment in trying out racing is pretty minimal compared to many. However be aware that one of the ways this horse could "flop" is by getting hurt, which could seriously change his after-track value.

I have another TB mare which I acquired for exactly that reason-- she had been running cheap races for a few years and changed hands a few times always with the hope that she might "make it" for the new owners/trainers-- well bred, gorgeous big mare-- but she ended up fracturing a sesamoid. She had to have immediate vet care and was on stall rest at the track for 45 days, and then another 30 once she got here. She will be sound enough to be a broodmare, MIGHT be sound enough for light riding on the flat, but will probably always have a big ankle and won't be able to have the career she could have if she had raced a few starts less.



>>>> So his bloodlines really aren't all that...or they might be okay?

His bloodlines are fine, but he's not running "up to par" with the best in his lines and being realistic, he probably never will. They don't always. Take the mare above-- She had 59 starts, with a record of 2-1-11, earned around $23,000, and almost all of her races were $4000 and less claimers. Not stellar.

She was sired by a graded stakes winner of over $450,000 in only 16 starts and her grandsire was the Leading Sire in North America in 1980. Her dam was a stakes-placed winner sired by a horse that won over $500,000 in only 15 starts and was exported to India where he is a leading sire. So her bloodlines are good and proven up-close, as well as having the typical famous winners further back. But she just didn't run like her ancestors.

AND, then she got hurt.
Being a pretty, big, well bred mare, she has the potential to have some use for someone-- but she has absolutely no value in this market as a TB-- she was basically given to me and it was that or face being euthanized because the season was over, she was hurt, and her time at the track was through.

The gelding you are considering could run another year or 2, maybe-- he might give you the opportunity for some fun and experience. However, he is at the top-end of the age that horses usually keep running, and there is always a risk of him getting hurt, up to and including a career-ending injury. Just something to consider when weighing your options before you decide.

Laura Lyon
Eastowest
http://www.eastowest.com
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post #15 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 04:12 PM
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ok im going to say again, 7 is not old for a racehorse. many many racehorses are older, its just that the young ones are the ones you see in the spotlight all the time. the average age of all the horses in our barn is about 7, and they have a long time to race ahead of them yet. dont get stuck on age, it really means NOTHING. yes you arent going to be able to race in the high money races like stakes and such, but just because its a claimer doesnt mean they cant make money. there are also condition races of which he could race- those focus around money made in a certain amount of starts, and usually dont have any age restrictions. the unfortunate part with those is those are usually your better horses (theyre in condition races so they dont get claimed) and younger horses learning to race who are potential stakes horses.

let me ask though, do you have the money to race him for a summer? let me show you something here so youre not shocked when it comes to it. to race my mare this is what i have to pay:

starting fee $10
lasix fee $15
prerace around $25 typically

so this is already $45 youre in the hole before you even race. PLUS the cost of training, stabling (if youre on a farm), feed/hay, vetcare, etc. racehorses are heavily vetted to keep them in top condition to be competitive in racing.

also your horse will have to qualify to be able to race again. so youre going to have to put time and effort into getting him back and make sure he can qualify to even get to racing. my mare is due to qualify in about 2 weeks, she just had a little over a month off. before shes even qualified to race i have put $300 vetcare into her to get her back into racing condition (ankles and right hock and stifle injected). not to mention the time (i train my own so i dont pay a trainer) to get her back in condition. average trainer around here is $30/day.

i wouldnt focus on his breeding, focus on his past career. see what kinds of races he was in where he was finishing. dont look at all his bad finishes as "well hes just crap" a lot happens in a race that determines where they finish. post position is a huge one, your jockey (yes they give a bad race sometimes- its hard to determine how a race will unfold at times, and theyre left to make split second decisions), track conditions, etc. it all has to be taken into consideration.

Maura- racing is not miserable for all horses. this is what those horses were bred to do, and for the most part they highly enjoy the race. there are horses who do not like it yes, those are your sulkers. but for the most part... no... that was really untrue and kind of hurtful to those who race. you make us sound like monsters who dont give a crap about how the horse feels.

iridehorses- your statement of the horse being worth races or else he wouldnt have been sold is sort of true. this is a possibility. BUT here is what happens a lot of times... a cheaper horse will be sold out of a barn that is trying to improve their stock. even if they make money. what happens is when a barn is improving stock they get rid of cheap, older horses, and horses who have problems, and bring in young expensive horses. this improves the quality of the stable to raise standards. there are awards given for trainer, owner, and jockeys who have done well at a meet. doing this gives them a greater chance at getting that.

at $300, i would say he would be best off as a riding horse. his career hasnt been great, and youre going to put a lot of money into getting him back racing, than youre likely to make out of it. once in a great while a horse does make a comeback, but this is ONCE IN A GREAT WHILE. if you want to get into racing and have a decent horse, youre going to have to spend a few grand on the horse.
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post #16 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastowest View Post
there is always a risk of him getting hurt, up to and including a career-ending injury. Just something to consider when weighing your options before you decide.
yes. but i want to add the injury is not always career-ending, but life ending. many horses are put down because the injury is just too extensive. i remember one of our trotters that we had was going to win a race. all he took was ONE bad step (no ones fault, it just is something that sometimes happens) and he shattered his pastern. he had to be put down right away. this is realistic. it happens. its something to really think about. i get attached to my horses and hate to see anything like that happen, and it breaks my **** heart when it does. but its a risk you take, in any discipline really, that something could happen. i almost had to quit racing a few times it was so bad. i couldnt deal with it anymore. the last horse we had die on us we had for 2 days, TWO DAYS!!! he had went out and jogged and came in, later he was being shod. as soon as they finished he started to go down. we got him out of crossties as fast as possible. he stumbled all over and groaned. almost killed my younger cousin because he fell on top of him into a metal stall door. he ended up dying because he had had a blood clot that moved to his brain at that time. now its nothing we did wrong, but it could have been caused by previous owners using different drugs on him. *shug* you never know what the horse has had....
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post #17 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 04:33 PM
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Maura- racing is not miserable for all horses. this is what those horses were bred to do, and for the most part they highly enjoy the race. there are horses who do not like it yes, those are your sulkers. but for the most part... no... that was really untrue and kind of hurtful to those who race. you make us sound like monsters who dont give a crap about how the horse feels.
Please go back and read my entire post. I have worked in the industry. I am *well* aware that it's not miserable for all or even most horses. My point was that a 7 year old, running in cheap races for an owner on a tight budget and most likely, running off of the farm is not a lot of fun long term nor is it a money making endeavor. I know, because I have many friends - small breeders, excercise riders, vets, hangers on, who've done it.

The fact that he's 5 miles from the track and has a friend with a trainer's licencse changes the equation somewhat. If the horse trains well, and he wants to run him for the summer for the fun of it, maybe it's not such a terrible idea. But, as another poster mentioned above, he runs the risk of injury and ruining the horse as a riding horse.
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post #18 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by maura View Post

Flogging a 7 year old around cheap tracks in claimers is a miserable experience for pretty much everybody involved, esp. the horse!, and bound to be a money losing proposition.
this is what you said... it was offencive. i was stating my option on what you said. i dont need to re-read, i read the whole post many times before i commented.

anyway.... its not miserable if youre doing it for fun and true love of the sport. if youre trying to make a living off of it, thats when its miserable for some, unless you still have that true love of the sport or youre making money.

and you run the risk of injury yes, but you run that risk in ANY discipline. not just racing.
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post #19 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 05:44 PM
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AlmagroN and Maura - let's not get into it and let's stay on topic.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just explaining why I'm right.

Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.


It's not always what you say but what they hear.
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post #20 of 66 Old 01-14-2010, 05:50 PM
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It was not intended to be offensive; it was intended to be a statement of my opinion based on my experiences. I have a *lot* of experience with people trying to run cheap horses off the farm and and least not *lose* buckets of money. It's fun for a while, but again, IMO and IME, not for long.

There was nothing in there that criticized the sport of racing, racehorses in general or racing people.

I love the track, and I loved working with racehorses. I would go back to it if I could. I am absolutely not one of those people who think racing should be banned, or that the track is all crooked and inhabited by sleazy characters. Sorry if you interpreted my remarks as offensive. It was in no way intended.

Back to the OP's horse and concerns.
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