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#1 ·
Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and just after some advise.
Ok so my story is a pretty long one but I'll try and cover it all so you guys know where I'm at and whats going on.

Firstly, I am not a horse breeder. I have worked on a couple of thoroughbred and warmblood studs for time but that was a few years ago now. I do have basic experience in foaling horses down. (Ive assisted with half a dozen foals personally) I am also a veterinary nurse although I predominately work with small animals. I have owned and ridden horses from a young age and have often bought project horses and ponies, broken them and sold them on down the track so I'm not new to the whole horse game.

Now to my current predicament.

I few weeks ago I purchased a pony mare as a bit of a project. (Little Buckskin I named Lou Lou) The information I have on her is that she was mustered up with a mob of wild horses from a large property that was owned by a mine that now wanted to begin to develop it. The woman I bought her off had owned her from about 6 weeks and had done very little handling. She was very thin but with a large belly but looking you couldn't tell she was in foal. (I thought she was just wormy as Ive had them like that before) Anyway, I brought her home, put in a few days of good handling, wormed her, vaccinated her and then got her checked by the vet. Surprise surprise she was heavily in foal. Her udder was present and empty, and the vet estimated her age at about 13 years old. Im assuming she has had multiple foals before.
Once I found out she was in foal I contacted the previous owners to see if I could chase up any more history. When I spoke to them they didn't know anything more but gave me the number of the woman who organised the sale. (The mob was sold off the back of a truck on the way to the doggers.)
They also mentioned that her sister had another mare from the sale mob (They bought two and one sister got one, the other sister got the other) I was pretty reluctant to take on another horse after just finding out my one project pony had just turned into two but once they showed me the photos I felt so horribly sorry for her that I went and picked her up.

This is where the story gets really sad.

The second pony (A palomino I named Xena) Was very emaciated. She had a pretty serious looking injury to her back off side hoof and she was totally terrified. I have worked with some difficult horses but this was like nothing I have even seen before. She was being kept in a cement backyard, hardly enough room for her to walk around and lie down. She had been flogged within an inch of her life. (The boyfriend made a show of demonstrating how he felt with her before I swiftly put an end to that!) He informed me straight off the bat, she kicks, she strikes she's stubborn. (He seemed to think that the horse throwing itself over a fence and onto the ground while being flogged demonstrated stubbornness) Even writing this down makes my blood boil!! So we ran her onto the float and I wormed her and vaccinated her in the float. For the first 24 hours I fed her only a limited amount of grass hay and she pooed straight dirt. I can't believe she didn't colic. I got the vet out straight away to check her leg and also got her scanned to see if she was in foal. (I figured she couldn't be very far along if she was in foal and I was considering terminating it if she was due to her horrible body condition.) When the vet tested her he was as surprised as me that she was also heavily in foal. He said if it was a regular horse he would estimate she was due in 2-3 months but due to her malnourishment she may be further along and the foal might just be small. He said the foot wasn't good but it wasn't infected and he estimated it was injured about 6 weeks ago. (They mentioned she cut her foot on the tin when they first got her) Even so sedated she had to lean against the fence to stand we still had to twitch her to stop her from kicking the absolute s*** out of the vet. He said at this stage it wasn't worth putting her body through the stress of the sedations needed to try and treat the foot now. It was to much risk for her and the foal so we are going to revisit it once she's a bit better handled and the foal has been born. It also looks like she has foaled before (judging by her udder)

I'd like to point out at this point that these people only had these horses for 6 weeks!

I managed to contact the woman who organised their sale, (She was as horrified as me) and she sent me photos of the horses from before they took them. They were fat and shinny. :(

So I've had these girls for about a month now. Just spend a lot of time feeding and gentle handling. Lou Lou has progressed extremely well. She had very little handling so is frightened but a very kind girl who is pretty cruisy about everything as long as you take your time with her.

Xena is a different story.
For the first few days she just about tried to kill herself every time I went into the yard to pick up the poo. She will also stand and shake like a leaf. Absolutely trembling from head to foot. After a while she began to calm down but its been a slow process. Every time she gets a little fright and jumps a little she immediately thinks she will get flogged and absolutely flies off the handle. This has made her pretty dangerous and unpredictable to handle not only for me but also for her. She will literally throw herself through anything and everything in her path to escape. Luckily I have reasonably good horse yards with better ones on the way. (I'd rather spend the money on fences then vet bills when a foal puts its leg through the fence) I know even the safest fences aren't a guarantee but I'd like to be as safe as possible.

Anyway, she's getting much better now. Ive taught her to lead, back up, step forward and she's getting more comfortable with me touching her neck and back. Her greatest achievement by far is that now if she gets a fright its just jumps and whys. She doesn't absolutely flip out although she does still tremble when exposed to new things. Well some days are better then others but she's come such a long way!!

Ok, so now that I've rambled so long you guys probably won't even read the whole post I'll try and get to the point.

Soooo, I check both their udders twice a day when I feed them. Last night I noticed Lou Lou was starting to bag up. No massive deal... She's put on a lot of condition over the last few weeks and I'm optimistic that her foal will be fine.
The real shock came when I had a look at Xena's udder and she's beginning to bag up too. She doesn't even look remotely in foal. Her ribs are still showing its just sad all round. :(

First question! (Told you I would get to it eventually)
What are your experiences with older mares that have foaled before? Do they generally bag up earlier or later in the pregnancy? I know that question is totally mute because it totally depends on the mare and not having any history there now way of knowing with these girls) Just after some reassurance guys its been a few years since I've done this and I've never had the stress of them being my own horses!
Second question! (I have already called the vet waiting for him to call me back he's king house calls today)
Anybody had experience foaling poor/thin mares. Any thoughts on how the foal might be affected or how the mare might handle the delivery? I'm already thinking weak/small foal. I should be sourcing some colostrum in case it is to weak to feed. (I would never be able to milk her) I'm also thinking hopefully the mare has enough reserves to produce enough milk to feed the foal, or even just to get through the labour.
Stressful times!!!

Anything you guys can think of, helpful pointers or tips would be great! I'm hopeful not to get to many negative comments. I've taken on a lot with these girls and I just want to give them and their foals the best care I can.

(I should mention here although its common sense I've got these girl on high quality breeder pellets, and as much lucern hay as they can eat)

I've tried to attach some photos but not sure if they will work.

Thanks guys for your time!

Lauren
 

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#3 ·
Kudos to you for taking on these two mares!

Sorry I can't really help you out on any of your questions. Like you already know the bagging up depends on the mare. I've bought a couple of emaciated pregnant mares before but they were in the early stages so I was able to get them in better condition before they foaled. I've seen pictures of skinny mares at rescues that have had healthy but thin foals so it can happen.
 
#5 ·
I don't think the horse could drop that much in a month and a half. That Pali mare is really thin.
I hope the foals will be okay. I would try to get a mare and foal vitamin for them. I would have the colostrum on hand for the foals. I have never heard of them getting to much.
Good luck, hope you have nice babies and no complications. I had 2 thin preggies years ago , one baby died and one lived. People need shot for starving animals. and hung for starving pregnant ones.
 
#6 ·
This is a photo of her before they got her. It was sent to me by the woman who organised the sale. She has dirt on her nose in this photo, I had to look pretty closely because she is basically unrecognisable but its definitely her. You can see the scar on her back leg, the same blaze, the same hooves. Pretty crazy. :(
 

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#7 ·
Should probably include a picture where you can see her legs! This photo was only taken a couple of days ago. Excuse her scruffiness, she won't let me touch her very much. I've found if I sing I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts she is much calmer. I suspect that has more to do with keeping me from holding my breath and frightening her with my tense body language! ;)
 

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#9 ·
What a great heart you have for taking these two mares in. Is that Lou Lou in the background of the oldest picture? Xena's expression and wide forehead remind me of my gelding.

I hope Endiku finds your thread, she worked with a mare in foal that looked as poorly as Xena or maybe even more so. And then twice rescued the filly, eventually placing her in a nice home. The mare survived the birthing, but unfortunately not much longer as I recall.

It must be a great comfort for her in her fearful state to be with Lou Lou, and if they all pull through, a happy bunch you will have.

Hoping for the best, will be watching for news and pics.
 
#10 ·
Yes thats Lou Lou. She has been fantastic helping to settle Xena. They are in separate yards but right next to each other and Xena often watches on while I'm giving Lou Lou a good brush or practicing putting the halter on and off her. I have two other boys at home, a brumby (Who is the quietest most amazing horse I have ever known.) I'm hoping to use him as a nanny down the track to use when I wean the foals. And Big Red, a 17h thoroughbred who is a monster. When I bought Lou Lou home she wouldn't talk to them at all. Wouldn't even acknowledge their existence. As soon as I unloaded Xena (A week later) Lou Lou was screaming at her across the yard. They very rarely leave the fence line between them. When I bought Xena home all she did was eat and lie down and sleep. Lou Lou stayed right by her the whole time. It breaks my heart what these poor girls have been through I hope she makes it through the foaling ok. Even if she does though we will still have to revisit the foot to see if she will even be paddock sound.. :(
 

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#12 ·
Ok, some more pictures!! Sorry you must think I'm being a bit of a crazy person but hey!! Also sorry for the horrible photo quality. And the fact that she has a big poo stain on her side. She likes to eat sleep and poo all in the one small area of her yard. I have hosed her off this morning but hey! Anyway, the poorly lit photos are ones I took the other night. Maybe a week ago? And then the daytime photos I took this morning. You can see that her belly has much more of a v shape, and that from the back her belly is less visible. I have some more yards being built off some of my stables early next week. I am hoping she will hold on till after they are up to have her foal. Any opinions? Do you think she will foal soon or do I still have some time?
 

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#14 ·
Xena will be pretty , looking at that photo you got from the woman who organized the sale.
Mares need the extra feed the last months of the pregnancy , so hopefully the month of starving will not have a bad outcome for the foal. I would up Xena's calories with some corn oil on the feed, and the mare and foal vitamin . I have seen some pretty skinny mares with foals.
Looks like Loulou is bagging up. Could be a couple weeks to a month or so. When they drip the wax pencils out the nips, then it is usually a matter of hours to days.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Check her out!! Going to go a nice gold colour when she loses her winter coat. She's really packed on some weight even in just a couple of days. The vet said not to be to worried about the foal. If she's got enough reserves to be putting on weight and bagging up she must have enough good stuff going to the foal too. Now just have to make sure she's good enough to get through labor and hopefully mum and bub will be ok. :)
 

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#18 ·
So glad you saved these mares and giving them all the care and help from the vet that they so needed.

As for foaling advice, from the first start of developing a bag it can be an average of 6 weeks before foaling. Some mares follow rules, develop at a modest pace and wax before finally foaling. Seems that most mares make up their own rules for foaling.

Last year my sister's mare had a little filly, it was the mare's third foal but the previous two foals were before my sister owned her. This mare was hardly halter broke when my sister bought her, she spent a few years training and breaking her in before breeding her. Even though this mare had had a few years of handling and training, she would not let you squeeze her teats to see if you could express milk or if it had made changes from premilk to milk ready for baby. For weeks she had barely any swelling in her udder, then she suddenly blossomed into a full looking bag for a small A cup mare. She had a sneaky delivery very shortly after, 11pm check and she was contently eating, a couple hours later and she had a filly standing and nursing. She had no signs other than her bag looking filled to the point that her teats looked stretched with their expansion. No wax, no dripping milk, no rules followed. Even though she would kick you into the next town if you wanted to handle her teats when she was in her last trimester, she had no issues letting her foal nurse... Although she would squeal loudly when baby latched on, it apparently pained her but her mothering instincts overrode her desire to punish the baby for causing such discomfort.

Another mare on the forum spent weeks fully bagged and looking like a dairy cow with her giant udder, milk completely in, and her owner spent weeks with no sleep before the foal arrived.

Basically, you could have a baby anytime now, all guess work. If you are able to get milk expressed, that will be your biggest aid but still no guarantees. Just a couple drops can tell you if the milk is ready for baby, if you are willing to taste it. Milk goes from a bitter to bland to sweet when it is ready for baby. This can take weeks, days or hours. Then there are mares that have their milk come in during delivery.

Good luck and keep us updated. We are obsessed with pictures, especially those with baby bellies and then their adorable foals.

As for the condition of foals growing within malnourished mares, the mares were well cared for until a 6 week period of misfortune. Babies take nourishment from their mothers before their mother can receive nourishment which is why a thriving foal can bring down their mother's condition. If a mare is pregnant and nursing, nutrition first goes to the foal growing inside, then to a nursing foal and the mother is last to receive what she digested. The negative effects on the foals will be minimal, your biggest concern will be the mother's condition and nutrition as she is gets the leftovers of her foal's needs.

As far as color possibilities, if the sire was chestnut, your options are:
Palomino mare: 50% chestnut 50% palomino
Buckskin mare: black, smokey black, bay/brown, buckskin/brownskin, chestnut, palomino
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#21 ·
Don't borrow trouble till you need it. Very often a thin mare will have a perfectly healthy foal because everything she got went to that foal. Just keep feeding her as best you can. Senior fed can help; you can feed quite a lot of it, and it's usually higher in fat.
 
#23 ·
Here you go! Look at the change. First photo is a few days after I got her, second photo is from yesterday. Ive been feeding her a complete breeder pellet and a bit of high gain which is just a weight gain food. She doesn't really like hard feed though so she doesn't eat much. I mix it up with a bit of molasses and water which she likes a bit better but still doesn't routinely eat it all. Most of the weight gain I think is from the hay. She eats soooooo much hay!!!
 

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#24 ·
Ok more pics!! Because I'm working the weekend so have today and tomorrow off and I can't help but obsess. The split photo, the one on the left is her udder not yesterday but the day before. The one on the right is her udder today. It hasn't changed dramatically but it is definitely a bit fuller. The totally dodgy photo is Xena's udder. She's to worried to let me get a better picture but her udder is a bit rounder too.
 

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