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How do you make a great stallion/breeding operation?

3K views 24 replies 7 participants last post by  dbarabians 
#1 ·
I've always been curious, and for plans down the road in which I would like to own my own breeding stallion, how to you make a great horse?
These are all purely curiosity questions, I'm sorry if they overlap with one of the current threads going on.


  • Obviously he has to do something great, but do you wait to bring him into the show world until he is fully mature, or do you futurity him a lot as a youngster?


  • You gotta get your name out there somehow. Where do you start off? Shows, or progeny records?


  • He's probably going to need a pedigree to back him up (yes there are plenty of horses with bland records that have done great things, but people are gonna look for names).


  • How much does your brood mare herd matter? Obviously if people want horses bred by you, your probably going to want to be producing nice babies. But do you look for mares that are similar in breeding lines and conformation, or do you mix it up? What about their performance record? I really wouldn't want broodmares that haven't really gotten out there and done stuff, but is it important to you? Or how well their babies have done if they have not ever shown?


  • What about outcrossing? I'm particularly interested in barrel racing and performance appaloosas, but quite frankly there are so few to pick from, and if you want to do good, you want to be able to compete with the big guys, which is dominated by QH's. Is it frowned upon to bring TB or QH lines in?


  • Some breeders breed their mares right when they go into foal heat. Would it be bad to go in rotation? Like some mares breed one year, get a year off then breed the next. The year they aren't having foals, the other set is.

  • Also, should you stick to one major bloodline? I see lots of QH Ranches that are strick on Blue Valentine or Paco Beuno lines and what not. Is that a wise decision?


  • At one time do you decide to maybe purchase a second stud, or keep a homebred baby to become your next? Also, how important is it to show your own babies?


  • How important is it to have a stud trained to a dummy?



  • Taking to consignment sales. Yes, no?


Of course, if any of this ever happened, I wouldn't have it be my primary source of income. I don't want to run a huge operation like the 6666's, just have some extremely nice quality horses that hold their own against others. Tear me apart if you want, its not like I am planning on breeding 5 trillion quarter pony/mustang/TWHs. Just a few nice foals a year.
I understand that the horse market is crap, but there are still places for nice horses.
 
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#4 ·
Most stallions are shown futurity up until retirement.

You would start advertisement as you are showing him.

You are probably better off sticking to a couple major bloodlines at this time depending on what you are breeding for.

As for a broodmare band, it's essential to breed to the best so choose your mares wisely. Most people like to see the mares shown before breeding, but not every mare is cut out to be a show horse, but they might produce a show horse with the right stallion. It's just pure homework. :)

Breeding on foal heat has it's benefits if you bred the mares late in the year. You can rotate the breedings, but it depends on age and conception rate.

It think showing your own foals will benefit you because why would others breed/show foals out of your stallion if you are not even out there.

In some cases, I have thought about getting a second stallion, but you just have to look at what you have right now and decide whether you can go through it all again with all the money involved. I like homebred colts as future stallions, because then you know his personality and not end up with a fireball in your barn (not to say you couldn't).

I don't mind certain auctions such as Triple Challenge, Reicherts, World, Congress, or any other futurity sale. Anything else, you might as well not even breed IMOP.

I prefer the dummy over live cover. There is difference in personality I think. Most people now a days only breed AI. If you do live cover, do it with just your band, because you just never know what will happen with an outside mare especially. Body language speaks louder than vocal calls in a mare.

But as waresbar has stated, you need a lot of $$$$$$, time, and knowledge way before you start this kind of operation. I'm just breeding a few mares a year, nothing fancy yet.
 
#5 ·
Thanks, MLP! Very informative.

Something else I was wondering, is it best to get the stud young, train and show him yourself, or buy him already grown and shown?
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#6 ·
That is a preference. If you have money for a young stallion to show, and train then go for it. Otherwise, buy a proven stallion with foals either on the way or on the ground showing. It'll probably be more expensive but as long as that stallion has made his keep you should be fine. Here is some examples to give you an idea of what I'm talking about

I purchased my stallion with champion bloodlines, excellent foals, and a mini show record. Well, I have to get him back into the show pen next year because I know he can do it and he needs a real record. Here are expected fees for me.

Training: 7500-8400 for one year @ 750/month
Feed cost: 200/month(slightly over estimated)
Shows: 4-8,000 (circuit, futurity, state, open, world, and congress shows)

Advertisements are anywhere from 250 to 1800/month depending on where and how long you advertise. That is either direction young or old.
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#19 ·
That is a preference. If you have money for a young stallion to show, and train then go for it. Otherwise, buy a proven stallion with foals either on the way or on the ground showing. It'll probably be more expensive but as long as that stallion has made his keep you should be fine. Here is some examples to give you an idea of what I'm talking about

I purchased my stallion with champion bloodlines, excellent foals, and a mini show record. Well, I have to get him back into the show pen next year because I know he can do it and he needs a real record. Here are expected fees for me.

Training: 7500-8400 for one year @ 750/month
Feed cost: 200/month(slightly over estimated)
Shows: 4-8,000 (circuit, futurity, state, open, world, and congress shows)

Advertisements are anywhere from 250 to 1800/month depending on where and how long you advertise. That is either direction young or old.
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It would cost way more than your expected fees. Way more! Have you actually shown before? I think you have unrealistic expectations on what it can cost and how much it would cost to qualify a horse for the World Show.
 
#7 ·
Oh i'd better mention the other part. :)

Just standing the stallion alone requires the advertisement costs. But keep in mind some older stallion have to be on a fertility suppliment after testical degeneration. That ranges anywhere from 100-400/month on most products but you can google it. Collection fees to clean him out is important which for me is just $100 each ejaculate. I have been told that I had to collect my boy once a week after he went through the degeneration. It's different with each stallion. Each year you should get a stallion exam to make sure you don't come across a problem later which should be done at least two months ahead of breeding season.

I hope I didn't talk too much lol.
Your're welcom!
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#8 ·
lol feel free to blab my ears off I'm trying my best to take in every word of it!:D

Advertising and such doesn't bother me too much, I've got some pretty beastin' photoshop and HTML skills. Sometimes. Kinda. Maybe...hahah

I think I would personally feel more comfortable buying a younger horse so that way any vices and such that might come up can be easily fixed without having to deal with a 1,200 pound animal.

How exactly do you get experience with all this? I would feel way over my head just jumping right on in!! I've gotten a small amount of handling experience with studs, and I certainly wouldn't want to go any further with what little knowledge I have.
 
#9 ·
Well, your best bet is to find a few breeders in your area that are breeding the same discipline as what you would like to breed and see if you can do hands on or volunteer. Basically find a stud farm that is willing to work with you. The more experience you have the better off you are. Go to breeding seminars, just anywhere you can get your hands on before you purchase your first stallion.

My stallion was the first stallion I ever stood at stud. I went to the breeding seminar at Ohio State and gained 13hr credits of continued studies. It lasted two days. All that for just $500. Lab work in which you're hands on with collection and A.I. It was an incredable seminar. I learned more from that and the lecture than any book trying to explain it. I know of a farm you can buy two DVDs to help you with shipping success if you want as well as what to do once semen is received. I have yet to buy them but that's on my list. Otherwise, I grew up having stud colts to show because that's all our perticular mare produced. Lol

On a curious stand point, what were you thinking of breeding? Cutting? Reining? Western Pleasure? I have friends all around those areas with prospects for sale all the time that can help you in what crosses are greatest.
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#10 ·
At a note, when I first started breeding my boy, nothing truely prepaired me for taking my stallion to get collected so just a fair warning that excitement is normal. It's good that you're trying to get educated. :)
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#11 ·
I'm leaning toward barrel racing or reining/cutting, however the Appy racing market is so shut off and secluded, I'm leaning more towards reining, plus I'd much rather deal with a reining stud then a speed demon stud, and there are so many disciplens that can go hand in hand with reining/cutting. (That was a long run on sentence hahaha)
My college offers a AI course, wasn't sure if I wanted to go through with it since it was for cows...and ooh do I hate cows. Hahah XD how do you find these breeding seminars?

If I go to OSU, I want to go through one of their summer internships with one of the big ranches like 6666 or Lazy E, I think that would really help me a lot!:)
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#12 ·
You basically google the "year breeding seminars" something like that. Just fill in the year. OSU isn't completely cow, but their ranch is very nice. :) I believe they accept horses donated for the summer and you break them or you take your own? You'll have to contact them. :) MN State offers that too. I've thought about it but I just couldn't leave my mother to tend to the breeding and foaling by herself with a full time job. OHH! Now that I think about. Gumz Farm would be really great for internship. You have to live there for a few months but they pay you. You participate in breeding and foaling. :) If everything for works out for me all next year I will take my boy there and try for internship so I can be there for him. :)

I'm a big fan of reining. :) I'm not familiar with Appy bloodlines though.
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#13 ·
Realistically, I think it is better to start with a good mare rather than a stallion. Buy the best possible mare you can, and build from there - retaining foals if they are good enough, expanding your band over time with other really quality mares. Stallion owning is very arduous - campaigning, advertising, covering mares etc. As well as that, most bloodlines are readily available, using AI really opened the world up for breeders.

ETA: This is my planned model. If I did retain a stallion at any point, it would be a colt I had bred myself. Not only would he add value to my breeding program, but he would add exposure to the quality of horses I breed too. It is my very firm opinion that mares make a quality breeding operation, not a stallion.
 
#14 ·
Hmmm...that's a great point Chiila!:D thanks!! I really like that, but then you only have a 50/50 chance of getting a colt out of her, ya know?

I'd certainly want to keep color in my breeding program, I'd really like to have some homozygous mares and preferably stud. I'd like to put more spots in the show pen, when I ask people about Appaloosas they never have good things to say, I'd really like to help improve their image and popularity..
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#15 ·
Yes very true and I think its better to go that route until you get some real experience breeding a stallion. I would start out with either a proven or very young mare, but.....my thoughts really to start out with a proven mare honestly. Get the best exposure.
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#17 ·
  • Obviously he has to do something great, but do you wait to bring him into the show world until he is fully mature, or do you futurity him a lot as a youngster? Depending how long you want the horse to last. A lot of the reiners that I've ever met have either started when mature and go on forever. Others in the Reining world are shown so hard at the futurity, then the derbies, (that while some show into their senior years-which is good care, training, and handling) and aging is more likely to come quicker.

  • You gotta get your name out there somehow. Where do you start off? Shows, or progeny records? Shows, bloodlines, conformation, facility, and training all contribute to how many people will want to breed their mare to your stud. I mean, you wouldn't want to breed your -can't live without mare- to a stud that has absolutely no name on him and was trained in someone's backyard, would you?

  • He's probably going to need a pedigree to back him up (yes there are plenty of horses with bland records that have done great things, but people are going to look for names). In the performance world, bloodlines seem to be everything. Better lines, better chance of an outstanding performer and athlete.

  • How much does your brood mare herd matter? Obviously if people want horses bred by you, your probably going to want to be producing nice babies. But do you look for mares that are similar in breeding lines and conformation, or do you mix it up? What about their performance record? I really wouldn't want broodmares that haven't really gotten out there and done stuff, but is it important to you? Or how well their babies have done if they have not ever shown? "Its takes two to tango" same as when making a foal. Mares are just as important as stallions. You want the stallion to help on the mares weak points and vice versa. If your mare had a head that totally did not fit her body, you'd want a gorgeous head on the stallion. IMO, mares need to prove themselves in order to be bred. These backyard breedings where they just breed there horse because their horse has such a good personality won't cut it. There has to be some sort of ability there. If you looked at two stallions-one that had numerous world champions bred by him and another that's offspring haven't even been thought about, who would you choose?

  • What about outcrossing? I'm particularly interested in barrel racing and performance appaloosas, but quite frankly there are so few to pick from, and if you want to do good, you want to be able to compete with the big guys, which is dominated by QH's. Is it frowned upon to bring TB or QH lines in? Its kind of like all these APHA/AQHA mixes in the reining world(which I've seen numerous times) they can be great horses believe me. But a lot of the AQHA judges I've talked to have said its just a fad. One breed, breeding is how you keep the lines pure.

  • Some breeders breed their mares right when they go into foal heat. Would it be bad to go in rotation? Like some mares breed one year, get a year off then breed the next. The year they aren't having foals, the other set is. It depends. Do you want many foals to be training or only a few? I personally like your idea, one year and year off. Its not as grueling as every year.
  • Also, should you stick to one major bloodline? I see lots of QH Ranches that are strick on Blue Valentine or Paco Beuno lines and what not. Is that a wise decision? Every line has their pros and cons. If you wanted to have Gunner babies you have the risk of deaf foals(which people say they are incredible horses) but its still a genetic disease. If you thought all Topsail Whiz's were just amazing performers you could stick with them(and a seperate stallion lineage-not the mare and stud being related)

  • At one time do you decide to maybe purchase a second stud, or keep a homebred baby to become your next? Also, how important is it to show your own babies? Depending on if you have the facility for another stud. I would personally choose a completely different breed line. I'm sorry I'm big on that, I feel like its incest. Lol. Showing your own babies insures that you choose how they are bred, raised, and trained.

  • How important is it to have a stud trained to a dummy? To prevent injury to the mare whenever covering. And if you want insemination.


  • Taking to consignment sales. Yes, no? Its your decision
I hope I helped!
 
#21 ·
Yes, I have shown, those were just minimal rates. I expect to pay well over €25,000 in just one year. I did add everything in because there's isn't a way to predict feed and hay costs or if there is a change in fees. I expect them to continue to rise. I calculated that months ago with it being just a calendar list of my state shows alone not outside.

On a scale, it could cost you well over 25,000 but breed registeries vary on costs. There's a lot to it.
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#22 ·
*didn't add everything in at the rate I typed on here.
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#23 ·
Yes, it absolutely could cost that much -- just to show. You are talking about campaigning a stallion. Bigger shows, bigger trainers, more money.

You list mentioned the World Show and Congress. At least one of those would be outside your state...so update that on the price list.

The cost of hay and feed is absolutely minimal. I wouldn't be all too worried about rising costs there.
 
#24 ·
I realize I posted World and Congress. That's my mistake for posting that. I've priced some on Congress, but at this point if you're training for just one specific event it's easier to figure your cost just for that show.

I'm probably going to make a new list once my horse is training. I'm aiming high and going all around. One is for certain, it'll be hard to break even if you don't do it right.
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#25 ·
a successful breeding program is centered on the broodmares. Stallions come and go but a good group of mares that can be bred to different stallions and produce consistently are priceless. Those mares will also replace themselves with their daughters and granddaughters They also give you flexibility to breed to different stallions and add new lines yet still be consistent with the type of foals you produce.
I bought my stallion to breed to my mares. I did buy his half sister to breed to him and a couple of other distantly related mares that are by Thee Desparado. Of the 22 mares here only 4 were not raised here. Shalom
 
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