"improving the breed" - where's the line we shouldn't cross? - Page 2
 
 

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"improving the breed" - where's the line we shouldn't cross?

This is a discussion on "improving the breed" - where's the line we shouldn't cross? within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        01-05-2013, 09:24 PM
      #11
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noddy    
    They're just trying to save as many from the range as possible because our government are useless *******s that want to copy Americans and deal with Kais the way they deal with Mustangs.
    I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. The Bureau of Land Management actually does a pretty fair job of managing the American mustangs.
         
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        01-05-2013, 10:08 PM
      #12
    Weanling
    Yes it would be sad to see no Kais on the range, but the point of the matter is that they are destroying native flora and by extension fauna, some of which are ONLY found on the Kaimanawa Ranges, where as horses/ponies are found globally.
         
        01-06-2013, 02:16 AM
      #13
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noddy    
    I like to think I'm realistic about how much horses cost - I'm reminded of it every time I see warmblood youngsters sell for the price of my CAR.
    Hi Noddy,
    Don't want to be the voice of negativity here but your comment above got me.
    These 'expensive warmbloods' would be horses who have either 'done something' competitively, or have breeding to horses who have done something competitively. It's not the initial cost of a horse that costs - it's the ongoing, feed, VET BILLS, grazing etc...

    In reality it is a struggle to sell horses here, especially of Kaimanawa origin - 'not flashy enough' and people can get them for next to nothing at the musters.

    Having spent years rescuing horses, I would be very wary about breeding any horse unless you intend to keep it for life (as I am doing with Zephyr)

    There is so much abuse in the horse industry that I, personally would not risk being responsible for the breeding of any horse who might well end up being subject to this abuse and I am not just talking about obvious abuse like starvation, bad training techniques etc....so much abuse comes from well meaning but ignorant people who haven't a clue and end up with horses foundering or developing stringhalt etc simply because people don't know how to feed them properly - don't get me started!!!

    There are so many horses out here who just need great homes.
    Lecture over sorry - can't help it - get a bit passionate about it.
    CessBee likes this.
         
        01-06-2013, 11:14 AM
      #14
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Merlot    
    Hi Noddy,
    Don't want to be the voice of negativity here but your comment above got me.
    These 'expensive warmbloods' would be horses who have either 'done something' competitively, or have breeding to horses who have done something competitively. It's not the initial cost of a horse that costs - it's the ongoing, feed, VET BILLS, grazing etc...

    In reality it is a struggle to sell horses here, especially of Kaimanawa origin - 'not flashy enough' and people can get them for next to nothing at the musters.

    Having spent years rescuing horses, I would be very wary about breeding any horse unless you intend to keep it for life (as I am doing with Zephyr)

    There is so much abuse in the horse industry that I, personally would not risk being responsible for the breeding of any horse who might well end up being subject to this abuse and I am not just talking about obvious abuse like starvation, bad training techniques etc....so much abuse comes from well meaning but ignorant people who haven't a clue and end up with horses foundering or developing stringhalt etc simply because people don't know how to feed them properly - don't get me started!!!

    There are so many horses out here who just need great homes.
    Lecture over sorry - can't help it - get a bit passionate about it.
    It was a JOKE, I know the purchase price is the least of costs involved in horses. Heck, I could say that saddles cost more than my car and it would STILL BE A JOKE, except that I'm very glad my saddles don't cost THAT much.

    Rescuing and adopting is all well and good, but what about that time when the musters **** the population up so royally that there's no Kaimanawas left TO RESCUE. Then they'll be gone, with absolutely NOTHING left of them. I've looked into rescuing a couple of times, not Kais though, and the sad fact of life is that these horses are unwanted because they're not suitable for anything except a paddock mate (and only then if you'd rather put up with vet bills instead of offering a retirement space to friends), and it isn't anyone but the moron who bred them that's to blame (and I have every intention of not being that moron, because like I've said this is all hypothetical and the way my career is heading will probably NEVER happen). Eh, whatever. I'll probably just move somewhere with better fences and get a wild Kai next year, forget all this ever happened because it's probably about to blow up in my face like I feared it would.
         
        01-06-2013, 01:25 PM
      #15
    Yearling
    Sorry noddy I didn't mean to come across as being nasty - I was just giving another point of view I agree that we have an idiotic government hell bent on destroying anything natural and beautiful but I don't think they will be allowed to destroy all of these horses.
    Also, and I'm NOT CRITICISING or trying to get at you here, but plenty of horses who need homes are merely dumped in the 'rescue bin' because people have no idea how to manage them - I've only ever had to have two horses put down
    1.because I couldn't get on top of his head flicking (Now I know more I think I could have done something unfortunately), and
    2. Because he had epilepsy - a truly tragic case where the people were beating him up because they saw him as being 'naughty' when in fact he was fitting.

    The rest of the horses I've had (and there's been a lot) over the years have been wonderful horses who just needed understanding, and/or good nutrition, respect and above all LOVE. They all became great riding horses. They give their all once they gain your trust
    So please don't think I am getting at you, I'm not. OK?
         
        01-09-2013, 08:30 AM
      #16
    Foal
    Okay, going to get this back in the direction I was actually asking about. And I do understand what you're saying, Merlot, but I think that if everyone limits themselves to breeding only perfect, six figure competition horses then where will the average person like me that loves horses and just wants to ride for fun be (I actually don't compete, and I don't train/retrain commercially, just the odd horse for friends and family). Or even the amateur/lower level competitors. I don't think owning horses is a pumpkin king given right (certainly not for some people, who present a strong case for contraceptives in the water), but neither should it be the domain of only the rich.

    Certainly agree with you on not knowing where a horse you bred might end up, but if a time ever came that I was breeding I would probably look at something legal to sort that - something like a contract saying I should be contacted in case of selling. Dunno if that would have a leg to stand on, but I'm not a lawyer and it's just one of the million and one things I'd be researching before going anywhere near my mares with a straw full of Sexy Welsh #86 XD

    With that said, HF, I'm going to ask again. Where do you draw the lines between breeding the big money, "perfect" horses, breeding good quality, affordable horses and breeding anything with a uterus? Is anyone who doesn't breed absolute perfection a backyard breeder to you, or is there room in your world for minor faults that don't extremely affect the usefulness of a horse?

    I guess I sort of side-tracked this myself with all my Kaimanawa blabbering, but it was the only example of quality/affordability vs. expensive/perfect I could think of (and saving a breed that's being slaughtered by the hundreds for tussock while we're at it -- because, eventually, DOC is going to win and Kaimanawas will be taken off the ranges completely. Maybe it's not a bad thing overall, but it will be if there's no effort to save the breed in domestication before it becomes so disgustingly inbred there's nothing left to save). You might say they're just ponies, CessBee, but there's no denying that they have been shaped by our beautiful land into a unique animal. Not to mention the fact that our ancestors put them there, and we have a responsibility to at least care for them, not just shoot them and dump them in a pile like trash.
         
        01-09-2013, 08:42 AM
      #17
    Trained
    Even in breeding only "perfect" horses you are going to end up with culls that wont make it for what they are bred for and would go into a secondary market...
    Chiilaa likes this.
         
        01-09-2013, 08:57 AM
      #18
    Foal
    I do realise that, but I'm talking mostly about breeding for particular goals (IE, chance of perfection is greatly increased if breeding the likes of Matine to Totilas - well, if they were complimentary in other aspects, but that's my general point - the average rider couldn't afford a horse with that breeding in a million years), not the inevitable messes that can come out of breeding. Because in saying that, is every breeder that's ever ended up with a piece of crap a bad breeder? No. But, honestly, I think if you get absolute crap 2/3 times, then it's time to rethink your baby daddy.
         

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