The "in's and out's" of breeding "the list starts here" Help out! - Page 2
 
 

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The "in's and out's" of breeding "the list starts here" Help out!

This is a discussion on The "in's and out's" of breeding "the list starts here" Help out! within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • "mare not producing enough milk"

 
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    11-27-2010, 01:32 PM
  #11
Started
If you are young and plan to go off to college, are your parents fully on board to take care of, exercise and feed your mare and handle and train her baby while you are away?

Are you knowledgeable in all aspects of caring for a mare in foal, foaling etc.? Can you spot problems immediately and have a vet on hand?

Are you willing and have the knowledge to train a youngster?

If a colt, have you facilities to separate mare and colt once he is weaned?

If breeding to sell on and the foal does not sell, are you willing to keep it for ever and not finally dump it for next to nothing or to an auction?

Do you know the horses up-front in your mare's pedigree, very well? Their faults, strong point, their temperaments, what they have produced before etc.? Same for the stud horse you plan to use.

Can you actually afford to breed? Breeding a quality horse does not come cheap. Stud fees for a quality stallion are usually over $1,000 and often a lot more.

If you are breeding to sell on, consider every expense which you will incur, including stud fee, vet fees, farrier and more, until the foal sells. Will you even be able to ask that much for the foal? Will he/she sell easily or are there tons of his sort and breeding already on the market going unsold?

Consider that even when very knowledgeable people breed, the offspring are not always just what we had hoped.

Lizzie
     
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    11-27-2010, 05:22 PM
  #12
Green Broke
I think an important thing to do is look at the market. Go on websites (like craigs and dreamhorse), talk to breeders and talk to rescues. You are responsible for the life you create. So...here are seven things I think are important (some of them may be repetitive to the previous posts).

1. Is the breed of horse you produce in demand? If you are going to breed a Quarter Horse you are probably going to have a harder time selling it as a foal opposed to say a Friesian or Warmblood.
2. Are a ton of them for sale but not selling?
Supply and demand people. If one day you decide to sell the foal or something happens you want to be sure your foal has a chance at some type of future (as stated many times above, but can never be stressed enough). I'm sure you don't want your foal ending up in a kill pen!
3. What are you looking to produce?
It's important to look at what you can buy as opposed to what you can produce. Say you want an Appy foal with a blanket, you would really like it to be a filly and you'd like it to be either a black or a dark bay. Well, I'm sure that your chances of getting what you want are more probable if you buy rather than breed. You need to realize you may not get what EXACTLY you want.
4. Realize there is a LOT of work that goes into producing a sane and sound usable horse when you breed.
If you just want a foal to have one or want to produce amazing colors play an online game like horseeden or howrse. That way there isn't an actual life at stake. OR if you just want to play with a pretty cute little foal go volunteer at a rescue or friend a breeder. I'm sure they won't mind if you go play with a baby. If you decide to breed you are committed to paying a stud fee, mare care fees, vet checks, proper feeding. Then you are responsible for knowing A LOT about the birthing process. What is and isn't an emergency. What to look for before, during and after labor. You need to think about having to shove your hands up your horse and help a foal out if necessary. You need to think about the possibility that you may walk out to the barn and your mare or the foal might be dead. If you are breeding a mare for the first time you may have to deal with aggression you haven't seen before toward you. A mare rejecting her foal. A mare becoming violent toward her foal. A mare not producing enough milk. Then once you get past all that you've got a 300 pound nutcase on your hands. You've got to halter break it and teach it how to stand for a farrier and on and on until you finally (after 3 long years) you have to put a saddle on it or pay someone else to do it for you. By then you are probably thinking why didn't I just buy a two or three year old three years ago.
5. Have the funds to pay for any type of emergency.
I can honestly say this is the ONLY thing keeping me from shipping my girl up to a Vanner stallion. Horse medical emergencies can be costly! If in the end you end up having a dead foal or mare on your hands because you didn't have money for an emergency was the breeding really worth it?
6. You really got to know your horses and what will work together to produce a nice foal. Don't breed because Missy has a uterus and the guy around the corner happens to have a horse with testicles. (I've been there and turned it down) It's no longer the day and age where every person needs a horse. We, as a responsible civilization, need to realize this. We need to stop producing such a large quantity of animals that will NOT have homes. There are so many people wanting to get horses, dogs and any other thing but there are far more animals looking for homes.
7. Strive for quality.
That pretty much speaks for itself. You can have 10 mediocre mares, breed to a decent stud and have 1 nice foal. Have to pay the stud fee...yadda yadda for all ten mares and then the care of the mares and their foals. OR you can have one really nice mare and breed her to one very nice stallion and you are more than likely going to get one nice foal. Let those mediocre mares live out their lives being trail horses. They'll never miss having had those foals.
     
    11-27-2010, 06:46 PM
  #13
Yearling
I'll add a few practical pieces of info, for those who have already decided to breed (meaning you have a proven mare and a proven stud and won't make junk and are aware of the responsibilities even if your amazing perfectly bred foal does not sell). To add on to ShutupJoe's comment about the amount of work involved, also realize that it costs close to $10,000 on average to put a healthy foal on the ground. There are those who do it for less, there are those who do it for far more, this is the average as determined by one of the leading theriogenologists in the United States. Costs include stud fees, trailering and/or hospitaliation while cycles are characterized, culture and cytology, infusion, oxytocin, ultrasonography, prostaglandin injections, shipping fees for semen, vaccinations, deworming, progesterone treatments, etc. etc. etc.

Maiden mares over the age of 7 or 8 will most likely have significant difficulties catching the first season you attempt to breed so expect to have your veterinarian get very involved.

Start with a breeding soundness exam the year before you intend to breed, ideally. If this is not possible start EARLY ie. March, to give yourself the best chance possible at getting your horse bred.
     
    11-27-2010, 09:15 PM
  #14
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spastic_Dove    
Hmm:

Know what you are breeding for and then select the sire and dam with the right build and mind for that sport.

If you can go to an auction and find the same thing there for cheap, don't breed for it.

Even when you do everything right, there is still a chance of injury, death, or a subpar foal.

You can't ride papers, but if you want your horse to stand a chance of a good life if no longer in your ownership they usually help.

You can never garuntee you will always own your foal. Life happens. Set it up for success.

Always be aware of genetic diseases and testing for things like HYPP, HERDA, etc.

Proper vet and mare care are essential. Breeding is going to be more expensive than buying in most cases and is always less certain. Be prepared for emergencies.

Make sure you be willing to put the age appropriate training on your horses it needs while it is in your care. Either do it yourself or have someone else do it. It may be 'cute' now, but will it be cute when a full grown horse does it to you?

Most good studs will not be offering a fee of $200.
Now there is a good negative post that gives little or NO information.

So I will post and quote from another thread where someone actually posted GOOD INFORMATIVE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastowest    
If you are thinking about breeding to raise and eventually sell a foal, or if you want a foal to raise to keep, but feel like breeding would save you money over buying a prospect, there are some important things to consider and check into.

Check around in your area to see what a comparable foal would sell for/could be bought for. For example, the actual selling prices of foals by the stallion(s) you are thinking of breeding to, out of mares with the same type of achievements and bloodlines and looks/size/type as your mare.

Check with the appropriate breed associations to see what it would cost to register your foal once it is born.

Add up stud fees, mare care costs while being bred, transport costs, registration fees, what is costs you to feed a pregnant/nursing mare for 16 months (additional feed and supplements for pregancy plus the amount of time the foal will be nursing) and feed for the foal for 5 months....add in pregnancy-related vet care (including fertility/uternine checks pre-breeding, vaccinations, ultrasounds, palpation, Rhino shots, newborn foal exam, IGg test, foal vaccinations, foal feet trimming, etc.).

Once you have a total for what breeding/pregnancy/foaling/foal care would cost, from the day you book your mare to the day you wean the foal, see if the amount you will be spending is more or less than the realistic price you could expect to get for a weanling/pay for a weanling in your area.

Things that could really screw up potentially breaking even or making any profit would be; difficulty getting a mare pregnant, complications of pregnacy/birth, injuries to mare or foal, having a foal born with crooked legs or anything else that needs ongoing veterinary care, ending up with any condition which is NOT fixable and which would affect the value of the foal, etc. Also there is the potential of the death of either a mare, foal, or both-- not common, but possible.

If you have a truly good chance of selling a foal for more than it costs to produce it from start to finish, then taking a risk on breeding might be worth it. But often, even with some very nice horses, it is not likely to be able to produce a foal for what it actually ends up being worth in this economy.

If you want a foal to raise, you might find out that you could buy a good comparable foal for less than the costs for breeding and raising your own.

With nice 'pleasure riding' type horses, it is usually easier to break even or profit by buying a young prospect for cheap, putting some time into it, and re-selling it for more, if you are capable of that type of training and have a decent facility and reputation which will attract buyers.

All of that said, if you have looked at all the costs and risks, evaluated your mare for quality and broodmare potential, and you come to the conclusion that you really want a foal from YOUR mare, my best advice is to go with the highest quality, most complimentary stallion you can afford, who is owned by a communicative, professional, responsible stallion owner. Look at several stallions. More importantly, look at their offspring, especailly as adults-- almost all foals are appealing, but they need to grow up into good adults. Talk to experts in your breed/discipline. Take your time deciding. You have several months. Make sure you are prepared for pregancny and housing a new and growing foal. Ask questions. Get help.

Good Luck!
     
    11-27-2010, 09:35 PM
  #15
Trained
Spyder I actually figured other people would be posting more information of a similar nature (as you have) so I didn't really post an in depth piece as you have copy and pasted.

I don't really think I was being 'negative', sorry you saw it that way.
     
    11-27-2010, 11:12 PM
  #16
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spastic_Dove    
spyder I actually figured other people would be posting more information of a similar nature (as you have) so I didn't really post an in depth piece as you have copy and pasted.

I don't really think I was being 'negative', sorry you saw it that way.

Maybe a slight over reaction but I am sick and tired of seeing every breeding thread posted on this forum being turned into a don't breed because you can buy a nice foal"...MOST people have brains enough to realize that. I bought several foals, trained them and had to sell them as being not useful for what I wanted..I ended up breeding the best horse I ever had. I wanted specific breeding that I knew would work. If I came here now and showed you the mare I had, I would be bombarded with negative responses but I knew what I wanted and what I wanted it matched up with. AND I TOOK THE RISK.

Then there is the "if you can't give it a forever home then don't breed"..well don't even buy ANY horse because dollars to donuts you probably won't keep that horse forever either.

Then there is the economy one..." No one should be breeding until the economy gets better" and while this has some validity, to arbitrarily stamp that statement on every person that even is thinking of breeding is a little too all encompassing.

Then there is the scare tacit by saying " your mare could get hurt giving birth and you risk losing her". Well Oh my God that risk is there even in humans but WE succeed in over breeding.

No wonder this forum is known as an anti breeding one out there in the cyber world.

People will breed no matter what you say and more people have left this forum due to the above comments that rarely, if ever comes with constructive information like the post I quoted above.
     
    11-27-2010, 11:20 PM
  #17
Trained
Oh I totally agree with you Spyder and sorry if my post came out otherwise. I just wanted to do a brief post (I did it at some insane odd hour in the morning too so that's why It may have been less than coherent) of the arguments about breeding.

If you are educated and understand what you are doing, by all means weigh the risks and benefits and make your decision. Regardless of the economy, good horses are still selling and I think there is plenty of room for horses to be bred.

Once again, sorry if my sleep-deprived ramblings made it seem like I was one of the NEVER BREED EVER YOUR HORSE WILL DIE types.

Generally I think most people who should breed are not going to look on here for breeding advice though I suppose there could be some people with breeding worthy mares or stallions who may be breeding their first foal.

I think most of the points in my first post have already been elaborated on well, so I won't do so here but I did want to try and clear up where I was coming from.
     
    11-27-2010, 11:28 PM
  #18
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
Maybe a slight over reaction but I am sick and tired of seeing every breeding thread posted on this forum being turned into a don't breed because you can buy a nice foal"...MOST people have brains enough to realize that. I bought several foals, trained them and had to sell them as being not useful for what I wanted..I ended up breeding the best horse I ever had. I wanted specific breeding that I knew would work. If I came here now and showed you the mare I had, I would be bombarded with negative responses but I knew what I wanted and what I wanted it matched up with. AND I TOOK THE RISK.

Then there is the "if you can't give it a forever home then don't breed"..well don't even buy ANY horse because dollars to donuts you probably won't keep that horse forever either.

Then there is the economy one..." No one should be breeding until the economy gets better" and while this has some validity, to arbitrarily stamp that statement on every person that even is thinking of breeding is a little too all encompassing.

Then there is the scare tacit by saying " your mare could get hurt giving birth and you risk losing her". Well Oh my God that risk is there even in humans but WE succeed in over breeding.

No wonder this forum is known as an anti breeding one out there in the cyber world.

People will breed no matter what you say and more people have left this forum due to the above comments that rarely, if ever comes with constructive information like the post I quoted above.
I don't think she was saying don't breed.

I agree with some of what you've said, but I think you might be taking it to extreme, just my two cents.
     
    11-27-2010, 11:35 PM
  #19
Green Broke
Ok people. If you don't have any thing to add to the list please don't post. If we all get in a debate then I'll have to surch threw a bunch of pages for the "meat" So please take it else where.
     
    11-28-2010, 12:32 AM
  #20
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by myhorsesonador    
Ok people. If you don't have any thing to add to the list please don't post. If we all get in a debate then I'll have to surch threw a bunch of pages for the "meat" So please take it else where.

So far the only things you seem to want to accept for your "thread" are reasons to not breed. These are the ones you are saying " good ones" and while they are a part of breeding they only cover a side of breeding that is negativity based, so it you plan of putting up a thread with all these ideas please title it " Breeding..Reasons to not do it".

The post I copied from the other thread is what SHOULD be thought out before breeding.

This may have been started by you but you want the in and outs of breeding...well guess what, some people find great joy in it. The selection of stallion, the anxiously waiting. If you are lucky enough to be there then seeing your baby get born. All the time and effort you put into this comes down to that one precious moment.

There is no greater joy, and I was blessed with the whole package. Watching his efforts trying to get up on wobbly legs to taking his first suckle from mom and leaving the barn knowing that a precious new life entered the world today.
     

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