Lets talk about pinto genetics :) - Page 3

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Lets talk about pinto genetics :)

This is a discussion on Lets talk about pinto genetics :) within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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    04-24-2009, 12:03 AM
Weefoal I just saw your post also. I remember that term "cropout" from back in the day... like around the time we had my gelding. That was like 17 years ago! I guess I haven't heard anyone mention it in a long time and just altogether forgot about it... LOL it does seem kind of silly to still have that up there. Did they stop using that term when the other registries started accepting Paints to be registered with them?
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    04-25-2009, 06:53 AM
Once testing became available to test for tobiano, frame etc it was known that there were no "cropouts" so yes a lot of years! Just minimally marked pintos and overos that people mistook for solids. So its really funny to me when I still see that on websites or people post that they have a "cropout"

I have also heard people use it regarding appies but again appy doesnt skip a generation so no cropouts. Just minimally marked horses
    04-25-2009, 08:59 AM
I think people use a color or pattern and refer to it as a breed the same goes with palomino or buckskin. In order for it to be a breed it would have to breed true. Both do not breeding palomino/palomino does not guarantee a palomino same goes with paint markings. A medicine hat is a common marking found in Toveros but not all of them will have it, my boy does although you can barely see it on most days all that mane hair between his ears hides it. The same goes with the blue eyes. Not all will have them and I'm not sure I believe it's the Frame Overo gene also that is linked to the blue eyes weefoal can correct me on that if I am wrong.
    04-25-2009, 01:24 PM
That's an interesting question. I know only overos will have blue eyes, but which gene causes them? I was trying to read about it just now and it only mentions blue eyes in the overo category:
Overo: A group of spotting patterns characterized by sharp, irregular markings with a horizontal orientation, usually more dark than white, though the face is usually white, sometimes with blue eyes. The white rarely crosses the back, and the lower legs are normally dark. The APHA recognizes three overo patterns:

And then in the spalsh sub-category:
Splashed white: The least common spotting pattern, splashed whites typically have blue eyes and crisp, smooth, blocky white markings that almost always include the head and legs. The tail is often white or white-tipped, and body markings originate under the belly and extend "upwards".

It doesn't mention anything about blue eyes in frame or sabino.
So educate me weefoal LOL
    04-25-2009, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by Shawneen    
That's an interesting question. I know only overos will have blue eyes, but which gene causes them? I was trying to read about it just now and it only mentions blue eyes in the overo category...
BTW, you never see mention of blue eyes in tobianos either, but they can...see our Paint mare "Angel", who has two blue eyes.
    04-25-2009, 03:15 PM
There are only 2 pinto genes that can cause blue eyes. Frame and Splash.

So many people think of Splash horses as having the typical splash markings. But many do not. The easiest way to tell is if a horse has an odd shaped blaze (especially if it falls off the face or includes the lower lip) the horse is probably carrying splash

Or if you have a Tobiano with no chest shield then Splash covered it up. Or a horse with a dark tobiano head and white body. Again that is splash.

Sabino really is not a pinto gene and many are trying to have it taken out of pinto literature. Sabino WILL NOT cause blue eyes and it does not cause bald faces, unusual blazes etc. That is Splash. Sabino causes roaning, some flecking small white socks, stars on the head and small blazes.

Splash is not at all rare. Keep in mind that splash can hide like Frame. I think it got that reputation because so many do not recognize it. So someone breeds what they think is a tobiano to a solid horse and they get a blue eyed foal with lots of white. So then they call it a "cropout" because they didnt understand that the Tobiano was also carrying splash.
    04-25-2009, 04:57 PM
So is splash an overo gene - or can tobianos have it also. IE: tobiano with splash is actually tovero OR just tobiano with splash gene? My understanding was that ONLY overos/toveros can have blue eyes, minus double dilute cream genes.
    04-25-2009, 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by PaintHorseMares    
BTW, you never see mention of blue eyes in tobianos either, but they can...see our Paint mare "Angel", who has two blue eyes.
I would argue that Angel is a tovero. Just by seeing her blaze. Tobianos only have normal non-color face markings: star strip snip blaze etc. Angel's comes way across her forehead above her eye(very similar to my gelding's).
    04-25-2009, 05:07 PM
Yes Splash is lumped under "Overo genes" by most people. But again understand that a lot will use Overo when they really mean Frame LOL. This is why it gets so confusing

So yes you could have a Tobiano horse that carried splash and call him "Tovero" and most people do that.

And yes dilutes (cream dilutes not silver) also have blue eyes but that's a whole nother story LOL
    04-25-2009, 05:11 PM
LOL thanks for clearing that up weefoal, I thought you were going to have to school me for a moment.

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