Lets talk about pinto genetics :) - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 37 Old 04-25-2009, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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LOL I am just so fascinated by equine color. Its an obsession can you tell??

Come on over and have some coffee and we can go thru every pattern

I've been clipping show horses all day so Im on coffee break
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post #32 of 37 Old 04-25-2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weefoal View Post
Tobiano---A TRUE Tobiano with no other pinto genes will have a colored head with no white. Also will have chest shield, color in the flanks and 4 white stockings with jagged edges. Will also have a split tail. BUT keep in mind those are kinda rare. Most will also have another pinto gene such as Sabino or Splash. Tobiano DOES NOT cause blue eyes. Tobiano can be very hard to pick out on a minimal expression horse. A "lightening" bolt down one side is a very common tobiano marking
The papers on my horse, Ricci, [you can see her in my "barn" and my picture] say she is Tobiano. However, she has a black face with a blaze, doesn't have jagged stockings, all of her legs are white, and two blue eyes. She does have the chest shield, colored flanks, and a two-tone tail [I'm assuming that's what a split tail is. I wonder what else she is crossed with, all this stuff just goes way over my head, haha.

Also, I thought Tobiano VS Overo had something to do with the markings on the back?

AND, a long ago quote said, "All paints are pintos but not all pintos are paints." That was before solid paints could be registered as breeding stock, though.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
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post #33 of 37 Old 04-25-2009, 10:40 PM
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Ricci is a Tovero also.
Her blaze that's trying to spread across her forehead is an Overo characteristic.
Overo: Head markings are distinctive, often bald-faced, apron-faced or bonnet-faced.
Tobiano: Head markings are like those of a solid-colored horse--solid, or with a blaze, strip, star or snip.
Her blue eye(s), of course.

Here's the Tovero definition again, according to APHA at least:
Tovero
(pronounced: tow vair' oh)
Dark pigmentation around the ears, which may expand to cover the forehead and/or eyes.
One or both eyes blue.
Dark pigmentation around the mouth, which may extend up the sides of the face and form spots.
Chest spot(s) in varying sizes. These may also extend up the neck.
Flank spot(s) ranging in size. These are often accompanied by smaller spots that extend forward across the barrel, and up over the loin.
Spots, varying in size, at the base of the tail.


The most common sign of Overo vs Tobiano is an Overo won't have white that crosses across their back between the withers and the tail. That is probably what you are thinking of. There are other things to look at too though.

It is up to if you want to keep her reg'd as Tobiano or go for Tovero. To some people it matters, some it doesn't.

As for the specific color genetics... weefoal has the answers :)
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post #34 of 37 Old 04-25-2009, 10:59 PM
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Since you all no WAY more about this than me, what would you say my Gypsy is? She's a pinto arab, but what are her markings? She kind of has roaning if that's what you call it and no face markings. Here are a few pics, more pics in my barn file thing. Thanks!
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg IMG_4289.jpg (36.7 KB, 74 views)

Treasure Valley Gypsy watching over her kid brother CR Sizzlin' Jet Chex
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post #35 of 37 Old 04-25-2009, 11:39 PM
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kk so I called apha and they stick by Iassic being a tobiano ....but they say I can appeal if i'd like....by their own classification he's tovero but they don't seem to want to follow their own guidelines at least not without a disagreement they feel the only thing not tobiano about him is the extent of white on his face
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post #36 of 37 Old 04-26-2009, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Riccilove

Yes your horse is Tobiano but I suspect she's also carrying splash and probably sabino. She doesnt have the jagged markings on the legs because Splash covered it up.

Starryeyed

Im so happy you posted that horse! Because its really rare to see a pinto with no face white. She's definitely tobiano and probably splash. The roaning is caused by Sabino.

There are some strictly Tobiano breeders out there that have managed to breed Tobiano horses that do not carry other genes. They are very sought after because as you guys see its hard to find a Tobiano that isnt carrying splash or frame etc.

Ashley I think that is so dang silly of the APHA! Geesh. I really think APHA needs to get with the times. Its just crazy to me that an organization that only registers Paint horses is so outdated. But its probably not worth fighting them on.

Quote:
Overo won't have white that crosses across their back between the withers and the tail. That is probably what you are thinking of. There are other things to look at too though.
This only applies to Frame. Since most consider Splash to be overo remember splash can have white that crosses the back.
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post #37 of 37 Old 04-26-2009, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleym100 View Post
kk so I called apha and they stick by Iassic being a tobiano ....but they say I can appeal if i'd like....by their own classification he's tovero but they don't seem to want to follow their own guidelines at least not without a disagreement they feel the only thing not tobiano about him is the extent of white on his face
Isn't that contradicting themselves right there?
OMG these people are goofballs!!!

I am stubborn and I would appeal it just because LOL Someone needs to get the stick out of their butt and figure out what specific guidlines they want to follow!!!!!!!!


Quote:
Overo won't have white that crosses across their back between the withers and the tail. That is probably what you are thinking of. There are other things to look at too though.
I know overos can sometimes (rarely, I believe) have white over their back. I just mentioned that as a general rule of thumb for someone to spot an overo vs a tobiano - she mentioned she heard something about the back.
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