Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons - Page 12
 
 

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Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons

This is a discussion on Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        09-20-2013, 10:48 PM
      #111
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by busysmurf    
    PLEASE SHOW ME FACT, SHOW ME SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE and I will gladly admit that I'm mistaken. NOT what you've or your neighbor have done.

    The purpose of this forum is to inform, I have not been informed other than by personal opinion. I DO HAVE AN OPEN MIND when shown the actual OBJECTIVE FACTS, not the SUBJECTIVE ones being presented.

    You gave me the example of Raffles, but he was infertile for a long time. What is so wrong about wanting objective proof?
    The problem is, much of horsemanship is subjective. One could even argue that the only objective disciplines are the ones run by the clock. Clock= objective, judges are subjective. Even studies can be interpreted different ways. Honestly, I'd take the 'subjective' facts over objective, because it's not an objective world we live in, and I trust the people that are actually out there handling their horse every day.Training is subjective as well- I don't recall every seeing any scientific studies about different techniques.

    At the end of the day, I'd take an inbred out the wazoo horse with good conformation and a sound mind over an outcrossed backyard franken-horse any day (But I wouldn't breed either of them).
         
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        09-20-2013, 11:07 PM
      #112
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kotori    

    At the end of the day, I'd take an inbred out the wazoo horse with good conformation and a sound mind over an outcrossed backyard franken-horse any day (But I wouldn't breed either of them).
    I wonder what the odds are?

    I am seriously considering breeding my backyard mare and making a fraken horse next year....well truth is I am considering crossing my Arab mare out to a Reining Paint with the hopes of getting the best of both worlds, but being very prepared to keep the resultant foal if he is a fraken horse.

    OR

    I could look at the traits I really love in my mare, look carefully at her daddy and grandsires and see if I could pin down where it came from and then chance breeding back close.

    Both are crap shoots, a first cross gives you all sorts of benefits, as does line breeding or in breeding done properly, but I actually don't know the odds.

    Walks away muttering, what I REALLY want to do is breed her back to her dam, who is the best of the family, how do I work that one out eh?
    MsBHavin, Fahntasia and doubleopi like this.
         
        09-20-2013, 11:15 PM
      #113
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kotori    

    At the end of the day, I'd take an inbred out the wazoo horse with good conformation and a sound mind over an outcrossed backyard franken-horse any day (But I wouldn't breed either of them).

    Surely there is plenty in between those two choices!
    MsBHavin and MyLittlePonies like this.
         
        09-21-2013, 02:33 AM
      #114
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kotori    
    The problem is, much of horsemanship is subjective. One could even argue that the only objective disciplines are the ones run by the clock. Clock= objective, judges are subjective. Even studies can be interpreted different ways. Honestly, I'd take the 'subjective' facts over objective, because it's not an objective world we live in, and I trust the people that are actually out there handling their horse every day.Training is subjective as well- I don't recall every seeing any scientific studies about different techniques.

    At the end of the day, I'd take an inbred out the wazoo horse with good conformation and a sound mind over an outcrossed backyard franken-horse any day (But I wouldn't breed either of them).
    This is very true; most things related to horses are subjective. Genetics are simply-- mathematics. Anyone who knows what a Punnet Square is can come up with basic odds about a certain cross given the variables. The rest is personal preference as to what's desired, and that can vary with subjectivity- as well as education and research.

    Sheykh Obeyd's stud is a great example of inbreeding/linebreeding consistent success, including a complete lack of diseases.. If the OP or others would like to know more about desired results proven repeatedly, that would be a good source to study. Mathematically and scientifically sound, it stands as a model of successful breeding.
    HorseLovinLady likes this.
         
        09-21-2013, 02:46 AM
      #115
    Trained
    If you refuse to acknowledge the creation of several breeds that are very numerous and popular that originated from one horse , the morgan, or 3 horses the TB, or how the Arabian has been inbred and linebred for thousands of years how many more FACTS do you need?
    I do not need scientific facts or some trumped up study. I have over hundred head of cattle that are in bred to their sires and grandsires for generations and several mares that are the result of their dams being bred back to their sire.
    The AL Marah breeding program is one of the most successful of any breed in this country and that program is centered on one stallion Indraff a son of Raffles . A stallion that influenced the Arabian horse in this country as much as any stallion has. Who by the way was the result of his dam being bred back to her sire.
    The sterility claim was probably trumped up as raffles had already covered a ASB mare that was in foal.
    For those so opposed to the practice how long have you been breeding animals? Or are you just reading something on the internet ?
    We have already explained the practice and I have given the reasons why I do it. We have given examples of successful programs and horses . Yet no one has commented on those or asked any further questions.
    I am beginning to think some people like to argue instead of having a mature discussion to learn and present your thoughts on the subject.
    I am too busy and have no time for such nonsense. Ask direct questions and I will give you an answer. If not then good day. Shalom
         
        09-21-2013, 02:54 AM
      #116
    Green Broke
    I agree db. Raffles and his entire dynasty is a varied study in factual successful inbreeding, as well as Indraff, his progeny and Al Marah, as are his son/daughter Aaraf and Aarafa.
    I had heard similar stories about the sterility thing FROM trainers who knew Indraff and Bazy.
    Experience is a good teacher. This is why I listen to people who've been breeding successfully for years. Some of our much admired breeders recently have used these practices with the expected desired result. Everyone has to choose what they feel is right for them and their program.
         
        09-21-2013, 03:03 AM
      #117
    Yearling
    Loads of awesome information here!
    Just my own opinion. Linebreeding is only called inbreeding if something goes wrong ;)
    Not horse related but my Jersey cow was bred back to her son because she was a randy little madame and hunted him down, jumping a few fences and throwing herself at him -_-
         
        09-21-2013, 03:03 AM
      #118
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EquineBovine    
    Loads of awesome information here!
    Just my own opinion. Linebreeding is only called inbreeding if something goes wrong ;)
    Not horse related but my Jersey cow was bred back to her son because she was a randy little madame and hunted him down, jumping a few fences and throwing herself at him -_-
    The calf resulting from this was fine btw and filled the freezer a few years later
    Druydess likes this.
         
        09-21-2013, 03:05 AM
      #119
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EquineBovine    
    Loads of awesome information here!
    Just my own opinion. Linebreeding is only called inbreeding if something goes wrong ;)
    Not horse related but my Jersey cow was bred back to her son because she was a randy little madame and hunted him down, jumping a few fences and throwing herself at him -_-
    It's really all inbreeding generally, but yes-- that saying is popular.. LOL

    That little hussy!!
    EquineBovine likes this.
         
        09-21-2013, 03:08 AM
      #120
    Trained
    I have returned to this page to make a statement.
    I read every post by other members when I am discussing a topic with them.
    I may not agree yet I strive to see their side of the discussion.
    Hopefully they do the same for me.
    If I don't agree with you on this topic that doesn't mean I wont on others.
    Everyone's opinion is important. Perhaps that is what we can all agree on.
    As adults there should not be any reason the MODS have to remind us to be civil, as they have in this thread. Shalom
         

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