Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons - Page 12 - The Horse Forum
 254Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #111 of 160 Old 09-20-2013, 10:48 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 292
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by busysmurf View Post
PLEASE SHOW ME FACT, SHOW ME SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE and I will gladly admit that I'm mistaken. NOT what you've or your neighbor have done.

The purpose of this forum is to inform, I have not been informed other than by personal opinion. I DO HAVE AN OPEN MIND when shown the actual OBJECTIVE FACTS, not the SUBJECTIVE ones being presented.

You gave me the example of Raffles, but he was infertile for a long time. What is so wrong about wanting objective proof?
The problem is, much of horsemanship is subjective. One could even argue that the only objective disciplines are the ones run by the clock. Clock= objective, judges are subjective. Even studies can be interpreted different ways. Honestly, I'd take the 'subjective' facts over objective, because it's not an objective world we live in, and I trust the people that are actually out there handling their horse every day.Training is subjective as well- I don't recall every seeing any scientific studies about different techniques.

At the end of the day, I'd take an inbred out the wazoo horse with good conformation and a sound mind over an outcrossed backyard franken-horse any day (But I wouldn't breed either of them).
Kotori is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #112 of 160 Old 09-20-2013, 11:07 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 12,995
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotori View Post

At the end of the day, I'd take an inbred out the wazoo horse with good conformation and a sound mind over an outcrossed backyard franken-horse any day (But I wouldn't breed either of them).
I wonder what the odds are?

I am seriously considering breeding my backyard mare and making a fraken horse next year....well truth is I am considering crossing my Arab mare out to a Reining Paint with the hopes of getting the best of both worlds, but being very prepared to keep the resultant foal if he is a fraken horse.

OR

I could look at the traits I really love in my mare, look carefully at her daddy and grandsires and see if I could pin down where it came from and then chance breeding back close.

Both are crap shoots, a first cross gives you all sorts of benefits, as does line breeding or in breeding done properly, but I actually don't know the odds.

Walks away muttering, what I REALLY want to do is breed her back to her dam, who is the best of the family, how do I work that one out eh?
MsBHavin, Fahntasia and doubleopi like this.
Golden Horse is offline  
post #113 of 160 Old 09-20-2013, 11:15 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 38,989
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotori View Post

At the end of the day, I'd take an inbred out the wazoo horse with good conformation and a sound mind over an outcrossed backyard franken-horse any day (But I wouldn't breed either of them).

Surely there is plenty in between those two choices!
MsBHavin and MyLittlePonies like this.
tinyliny is offline  
post #114 of 160 Old 09-21-2013, 02:33 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,827
• Horses: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotori View Post
The problem is, much of horsemanship is subjective. One could even argue that the only objective disciplines are the ones run by the clock. Clock= objective, judges are subjective. Even studies can be interpreted different ways. Honestly, I'd take the 'subjective' facts over objective, because it's not an objective world we live in, and I trust the people that are actually out there handling their horse every day.Training is subjective as well- I don't recall every seeing any scientific studies about different techniques.

At the end of the day, I'd take an inbred out the wazoo horse with good conformation and a sound mind over an outcrossed backyard franken-horse any day (But I wouldn't breed either of them).
This is very true; most things related to horses are subjective. Genetics are simply-- mathematics. Anyone who knows what a Punnet Square is can come up with basic odds about a certain cross given the variables. The rest is personal preference as to what's desired, and that can vary with subjectivity- as well as education and research.

Sheykh Obeyd's stud is a great example of inbreeding/linebreeding consistent success, including a complete lack of diseases.. If the OP or others would like to know more about desired results proven repeatedly, that would be a good source to study. Mathematically and scientifically sound, it stands as a model of successful breeding.
HorseLovinLady likes this.

For those who don't like me-- it's mind over matter; I don't mind - - and you don't matter.
www.obsidianarabians.com
Druydess is offline  
post #115 of 160 Old 09-21-2013, 02:46 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,919
• Horses: 0
If you refuse to acknowledge the creation of several breeds that are very numerous and popular that originated from one horse , the morgan, or 3 horses the TB, or how the Arabian has been inbred and linebred for thousands of years how many more FACTS do you need?
I do not need scientific facts or some trumped up study. I have over hundred head of cattle that are in bred to their sires and grandsires for generations and several mares that are the result of their dams being bred back to their sire.
The AL Marah breeding program is one of the most successful of any breed in this country and that program is centered on one stallion Indraff a son of Raffles . A stallion that influenced the Arabian horse in this country as much as any stallion has. Who by the way was the result of his dam being bred back to her sire.
The sterility claim was probably trumped up as raffles had already covered a ASB mare that was in foal.
For those so opposed to the practice how long have you been breeding animals? Or are you just reading something on the internet ?
We have already explained the practice and I have given the reasons why I do it. We have given examples of successful programs and horses . Yet no one has commented on those or asked any further questions.
I am beginning to think some people like to argue instead of having a mature discussion to learn and present your thoughts on the subject.
I am too busy and have no time for such nonsense. Ask direct questions and I will give you an answer. If not then good day. Shalom
dbarabians is offline  
post #116 of 160 Old 09-21-2013, 02:54 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,827
• Horses: 8
I agree db. Raffles and his entire dynasty is a varied study in factual successful inbreeding, as well as Indraff, his progeny and Al Marah, as are his son/daughter Aaraf and Aarafa.
I had heard similar stories about the sterility thing FROM trainers who knew Indraff and Bazy.
Experience is a good teacher. This is why I listen to people who've been breeding successfully for years. Some of our much admired breeders recently have used these practices with the expected desired result. Everyone has to choose what they feel is right for them and their program.

For those who don't like me-- it's mind over matter; I don't mind - - and you don't matter.
www.obsidianarabians.com

Last edited by Druydess; 09-21-2013 at 03:01 AM.
Druydess is offline  
post #117 of 160 Old 09-21-2013, 03:03 AM
Started
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,667
• Horses: 5
Loads of awesome information here!
Just my own opinion. Linebreeding is only called inbreeding if something goes wrong ;)
Not horse related but my Jersey cow was bred back to her son because she was a randy little madame and hunted him down, jumping a few fences and throwing herself at him -_-

I am her eyes, she is my wings. I am her voice, she is my spirit. I am her human, she is my horse.

EquineBovine is offline  
post #118 of 160 Old 09-21-2013, 03:03 AM
Started
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,667
• Horses: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by EquineBovine View Post
Loads of awesome information here!
Just my own opinion. Linebreeding is only called inbreeding if something goes wrong ;)
Not horse related but my Jersey cow was bred back to her son because she was a randy little madame and hunted him down, jumping a few fences and throwing herself at him -_-
The calf resulting from this was fine btw and filled the freezer a few years later
Druydess likes this.

I am her eyes, she is my wings. I am her voice, she is my spirit. I am her human, she is my horse.

EquineBovine is offline  
post #119 of 160 Old 09-21-2013, 03:05 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,827
• Horses: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by EquineBovine View Post
Loads of awesome information here!
Just my own opinion. Linebreeding is only called inbreeding if something goes wrong ;)
Not horse related but my Jersey cow was bred back to her son because she was a randy little madame and hunted him down, jumping a few fences and throwing herself at him -_-
It's really all inbreeding generally, but yes-- that saying is popular.. LOL

That little hussy!!
EquineBovine likes this.

For those who don't like me-- it's mind over matter; I don't mind - - and you don't matter.
www.obsidianarabians.com
Druydess is offline  
post #120 of 160 Old 09-21-2013, 03:08 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,919
• Horses: 0
I have returned to this page to make a statement.
I read every post by other members when I am discussing a topic with them.
I may not agree yet I strive to see their side of the discussion.
Hopefully they do the same for me.
If I don't agree with you on this topic that doesn't mean I wont on others.
Everyone's opinion is important. Perhaps that is what we can all agree on.
As adults there should not be any reason the MODS have to remind us to be civil, as they have in this thread. Shalom
dbarabians is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The worst reasons for breeding your mare. Golden Horse Horse Breeding 73 04-23-2013 11:47 AM
Line breeding Crossover Horse Breeding 5 10-17-2011 12:33 AM
Line-Breeding/In-Breeding candandy49 Horse Breeding 7 05-26-2011 04:25 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome