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Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons

This is a discussion on Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Things spread by equine inbreeding

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    09-21-2013, 02:18 PM
  #131
Yearling
Whoops, it looks like that article won't open for some reason... It's a PDF but I can't upload it either because it's too big D:
Let me try to figure out a way to do this here... (Mods? Any help?) -Maybe if I shortened the URL?
In the meantime I think I could forward it to you in an email if you're interested. Just shoot me an address to send it to.

EDIT: Try this link. Leads to the Online Library where the article is hosted.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...1.00465.x/full

(It works for me, should be a link to "Harnessing the Genetic Toolbox for the benefit of the Racing Thoroughbred")
     
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    09-21-2013, 11:12 PM
  #132
Trained
Thanks your professor just made my point it inbreeding strengthens certain traits and is why I do it .
I just ensure the animals I use are healthy and correct.
It will continue to be a part of my breeding program with the horses and with the cattle especially.
As my vet an equine specialist stated today if done correctly there should be no problems. You do need an outcross however inbreeding can only highlight genetic problems if they are there. It cannot create them. Shalom
Druydess and doubleopi like this.
     
    09-21-2013, 11:15 PM
  #133
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
Thanks your professor just made my point it inbreeding strengthens certain traits and is why I do it .
I just ensure the animals I use are healthy and correct.
It will continue to be a part of my breeding program with the horses and with the cattle especially.
As my vet an equine specialist stated today if done correctly there should be no problems. You do need an outcross however inbreeding can only highlight genetic problems if they are there. It cannot create them. Shalom
Yes, that was a very good article Shoebox. I think many of us were saying the same thing and that article was a big help in reiterating some great points!!
     
    09-21-2013, 11:35 PM
  #134
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
I am wondering why line breeding is not so successful inhuman beings. The royalties of Europe had quite a bit of inbreeding or line breeding and didn't they end up with hemophilia and sterility issues? Or is that just old tales they tell?
Hemophilia isn't a result of line breeding. At least no more so than diabetes, breast cancer or any other potentially inherited medical condition. It spread through the royal families in Europe not from line breeding (Czar Nicholas had no blood relationship to HBM Victoria, but he did marry her granddaughter), but because Victoria passed on that gene to most of her female children and managed in a two generations to have much of her offspring married to various noble and royal houses in Europe. Which is why in 3 generations most of the royal families in Europe were related....they had all married members of, or had a parent that had been part of GB royal family.

In the US cousins were still getting married through the 1800's and in England it was still done into the 1900's although I think the practice finally stopped at some point in the 1900's (but not the early 1900's). I can't speak with any degree of knowledge about other countries, but it's a pretty safe bet Europe and most of the world wasn't much different than the US and some were probably like the UK. Of course no one likes to think of that today . Like many things in human history we like to whitewash, rewrite, ignore or hide things we do/did when we see them as acceptable later on.
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    09-22-2013, 11:54 AM
  #135
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
Thanks your professor just made my point it inbreeding strengthens certain traits and is why I do it .
I just ensure the animals I use are healthy and correct.
It will continue to be a part of my breeding program with the horses and with the cattle especially.
As my vet an equine specialist stated today if done correctly there should be no problems. You do need an outcross however inbreeding can only highlight genetic problems if they are there. It cannot create them. Shalom
He did mention the possible strengths, but I think he also made my point about the downfalls. You can just 'make sure your animals are healthy,' but you can't do that 100%. You can test for KNOWN issues, not ones that are yet unknown but will possibly be brought out by a breeding. (Unless you want to genetically sequence your horse or something and check everything).

I think we're all just going to have to agree to disagree - At this point we're going in circular conversations and not getting anywhere. If anything when I read his reply and article it solidified my viewpoint and confirmed what I had thought but didn't really know enough about to feel 100% with. I think it's unnecessarily risky and irresponsible (the 'risks outweigh the benefits' sort of thing for me I think), and I don't think anything will ever change that. On the same coin you both think there's nothing wrong with it and so long as you're careful nothing bad can happen (the benefits outweigh the risks). Dandy! Feel free to continue doing so - Just don't ask me to buy one of your horses
     
    09-22-2013, 01:06 PM
  #136
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoebox    

I think we're all just going to have to agree to disagree - At this point we're going in circular conversations and not getting anywhere. If anything when I read his reply and article it solidified my viewpoint and confirmed what I had thought but didn't really know enough about to feel 100% with.
There you go, the debate has benefit, you have found out more and it moved you further to one side. It is only the swing voters who move by the power of an exchange of words.
Speed Racer, MsBHavin and Shoebox like this.
     
    09-22-2013, 01:17 PM
  #137
Green Broke
Very true Shoebox. The best we can do weigh all the possibilities and make the most educated decisions possible. Time and experience will do the rest. Great debate! ;) Loved your professors input. Too bad we don't don't have a few more of him on the forum..LOL
     
    09-22-2013, 06:12 PM
  #138
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsBHavin    
Don't forget the hollow earth nutters...they insist that the Mayans are all hiding in there with the dinosaurs and that's why NASA won't post pictures of the poles.

This whole thing reminds me of guy I worked with who swore left & right, up & down that the way he handled acid spills was a 100% guarantee to work because it always worked for him, that was his proof.

What we tried telling him over & over again was that, yes it worked with that concentration of acid and his situation was always the same. But we didn't always know the details of what we were dealing with so his way wasn't a good idea. Eventually, it wasn't hoing to work.

There was a procedure that was scientifically proven to be safer when handling unknown acids. But we HAD to do things his way once on a spill.


People will believe what they want and scour the internet for hours and days just to find that one tidbit that helps them reassure themselves....regardless of what science or even common sense..says.
This reminds me of a guy I used to work with who swore the way he handled acid spills was the be all & end all. But science & others felt otherwise. Regardless of how much documentation he was shown, no one could convince him otherwise.

Until we went on an acid job, similar to a lot of others. Long story short, he had to accept that he'd been lucky all those times. Even though every safety precaution was taken, several of us still ended up with burns, & it got pretty ugly. We were lucky no one was hospitalized.
     
    09-22-2013, 10:46 PM
  #139
Green Broke
Anyone who needs to know more about inbreeding/linebreeding might benefit from speaking with those well-versed on the topic. I have found Denise Gainey and Arlene Magid to be invaluable resources. Denise is a wealth of knowledge, with years of research with regard to compatible crosses and complimentary bloodlines. She herself just produced an exquisite colt by this very method and he is quite something. Arlene, who does breeding consultant work, can advise people who may not have as much knowledge. An expert on such matters, she has decades of experience to draw on. She is worth the money.
As was mentioned, the internet is not always the best source; people's opinions are nice, but they're only opinions- often presented with a bias (as is human nature) and not much research, unfortunately. When it comes to real life, I find people like Denise and Arlene, as well as other friends who are actual (successful) breeders to be the real meter as far as making correct, educated choices. They've taught me such a great deal of knowledge and perhaps they, or people with a similar level of expertise might be more helpful to those seeking accurate information based on experience and practical, applied knowledge.
With something as important as potential lives being brought to this earth, real experts are who I would turn to to make such important decisions.
dbarabians and HorseLovinLady like this.
     
    09-22-2013, 11:10 PM
  #140
Trained
Shoebox in your conversation with the professor did you tell him about the creation of several breeds and how they were created from one or just a few stallions? Shalom
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