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Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons

This is a discussion on Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        09-23-2013, 01:46 PM
      #141
    Super Moderator
    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    A fair amount of rude and off topic remarks have been removed from this thread. We could close this one and let it go, but the topic and discussion of this thread is the kind that our forum is designed for. Here, we can discuss something that is really of interest to persons who put their whole heart and soul, not to mention a ton of money , into horses.

    The concepts are not just how do I lead my horse, or bond with him, or which color looks good on him. This is a high level discussion, bringing in science and traditional practices from ancient history. Participants may be pretty firm in their beliefs on this breeding practice, so firm that they should be easily able to understand the firmness with which the other person holds on to their opposing position. Please do not let frustration reduce you to insults.
         
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        09-23-2013, 02:42 PM
      #142
    Green Broke
    This is why I will probably never try my hand at breeding... In addition to it being difficult and a roll of the dice, it's entirely too political for me... xD

    As far as my opinions on the matter... I look at the result. If I have a nice horse with some line breeding, cool. If it has none, cool. I'm not in horseback riding for the papers...

    A really interesting thread, though. I learned quite a bit on a subject that I'm not very familiar with.
    Druydess likes this.
         
        09-23-2013, 03:42 PM
      #143
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
    It's kind of like saying that humans are inbred because we all descend from Adam and Eve, who if I remember only had two sons. Well anyway, you get the idea, we are either descended from monkeys, or we are inbred
    The bible specifically mentions three sons Cain, Abel and Seth and then add that they had many sons and daughters, one would assume after the first three. Jewish tradition I believe holds that they had 33 sons and 23 daughters. After the fall of Cain for murdering Abel the first mention of marriages that fit the definition of inbreeding is of Seth's sons to Cain's daughters depending on how you translate scriptures.
    dbarabians likes this.
         
        09-23-2013, 03:58 PM
      #144
    Super Moderator
    I can't imagine what the human race would be like if we'd been manipulated through in/line breeding FOR specific genetic characteristics, verses for tribal or national relations building.
         
        09-23-2013, 04:21 PM
      #145
    Trained
    Qrtrbel my people are more inbred than those barefoot hillbillies we make fun of. Shalom
    Druydess likes this.
         
        09-23-2013, 06:32 PM
      #146
    Green Broke
    I don't think there is any breed of Modern horse today, that has not been linebred or inbred.
    I think that over line breeding and in breeding will bring out less diserable traits as people no longer 'cull' the foals with problems and they get sold and some are bred..

    Someone commented about people and inbreeding.. well Hitler would have, had the sick sob survived.
    Druydess likes this.
         
        09-23-2013, 07:29 PM
      #147
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    Qrtrbel my people are more inbred than those barefoot hillbillies we make fun of. Shalom
    Haha...I have tried to avoid bringing up your inbred traits a lot of times...

    I haven't read the whole thread, so pardon me if I am redundant. Line breeding is an excellent breeding tool to perpetuate desired traits AND/OR to eliminate undesired traits. However, line breeding requires more expertise than conventional breeding, and I don't recommend that novices line breed.

    This mare, a former broodmare of mine, is an excellent example of line breeding...

    One Freckle Appaloosa

    dbarabians likes this.
         
        09-23-2013, 07:59 PM
      #148
    Green Broke
    I'd like to sincerely thank tinyliny and the other mods for keeping this thread open and all the work that entails. It would have been a shame to close it. I am very much enjoying it and I hope we can all continue to offer information and opinions respectfully.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by QtrBel    
    The bible specifically mentions three sons Cain, Abel and Seth and then add that they had many sons and daughters, one would assume after the first three. Jewish tradition I believe holds that they had 33 sons and 23 daughters. After the fall of Cain for murdering Abel the first mention of marriages that fit the definition of inbreeding is of Seth's sons to Cain's daughters depending on how you translate scriptures.
    Many people do not want to accept this part of biblical accounts. Inbreeding is a given in this scenario, and was again culturally acceptable until recently.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    Qrtrbel my people are more inbred than those barefoot hillbillies we make fun of. Shalom
    db-- you kill me!
         
        09-23-2013, 11:26 PM
      #149
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevenson    
    I don't think there is any breed of Modern horse today, that has not been linebred or inbred.
    I think that over line breeding and in breeding will bring out less diserable traits as people no longer 'cull' the foals with problems and they get sold and some are bred..

    Someone commented about people and inbreeding.. well Hitler would have, had the sick sob survived.
    There's not breed of domestic animal that isn't the produce of in-breeding, line breeding or in-line breeding. How do people think man domesticated animals?
    To over simplify the process an animal that behaved less wild than the rest and was more accepting of humans or willing to be with humans or more willing to do what a person wanted was bred and then inbred with the offspring in the effort to create more that were like that. A trait was desired, found and bred for which would by necessity require that the original be bred to it's offspring that contained the same trait and the offspring of their offspring (and so on and so forth) as the domestic (dog, horse, cattle, sheep, goat, cat, chicken, duck, rabbit, etc, etc, etc,......) came into being. After domesticating them we then worked to "customize" them more defined traits by inbreeding, cross breeding, line breeding to create different "breeds" of a domestic animal (e.g. The Arabian horse, Friesian horse, Icelandic horse, Mastiff, Bloodhound, Border Collie).
    Do people think that all these animals just "magically" appeared . Humans have been doing this (obviously quite successfully) for longer than our recorded history.
    As for passing on negative traits , the Nazi had a solution for that which they did put into practice, but it wasn't inbreeding (anyone who had an undesirable trait was sterilized so it couldn't be passed on). This breeding solution was rejected by many. Of course for a most of human history in most societies those with obvious undesired conditions were openly culled by being left to die (if not killed) after birth (but I think the last of those ended in the 1800's....I hope ) Passing on negative traits is not unique to line breeding. In point of fact it's breeding outside a line that ultimately spreads many negative traits quicker to a greater number of whatever specie. If a trait only exists in a specific line then it's breeding outside that line that moves it into even more lines (that's true of every animal...including humans).
    It's a two edged sword. To improve breeds (including people) you want to breed for more diversity so that the end product has more desirable traits to draw from (the best from each parent), but along with that we risk passing any or all negative traits from each parent. To maintain traits you need to breed to maintain that trait, but that limits the gene pool you can draw from. It all comes down to what you're wanting as your end product.

    Ok class, be sure to read the rest of chapters 4-6. There will not be a test, but you are responsible for knowing the material
    dbarabians and HorseLovinLady like this.
         
        09-24-2013, 12:53 AM
      #150
    Green Broke
    FABulous post its lbs!!

    Well spoken! Very clear and concise explanation. It is forgotten, sometimes I think, that we have indeed been practicing inbreeding since animal domestication. There are always pros and cons with every breeding. As you said, it all depends on the goal.

    Bring on the quiz!!
         

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