My horse has intact reproductive organs - should I breed? - Page 11
 
 

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My horse has intact reproductive organs - should I breed?

This is a discussion on My horse has intact reproductive organs - should I breed? within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        01-03-2013, 10:28 PM
      #101
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rookie    
    with all due respect its not about loving horses enough. I don't even know what you mean by that statement. If you love the species enough? If you love your horse enough? Breeding at most levels is about loving horse and about 800 different things. I say most breeders love their horse because most horses are being raised for a companion/partner job. You might love cows but at the end of the day you breed cows knowing that you will send them to slaughter.

    There is a lot that goes into deciding or not deciding to breed. I have met people who are breeding their mares, from the most back yardiest breeder to professional breeding facilities. All of them share one thing, they think the foal they will produce will be a winner. They think their mare and stallion combination is going to produce something good, even if all evidence points to the contrary. Look over the threads, see how many people are psyched to have a mare in foal. Now try telling even one of those people that it was a bad idea. Good breeding and breeders are doing it for the love of their horse, but there are other reasons too.

    Education is important; however, you can't force people to be educated. How many breeders out there ask their veterinarian if they think their mare should be bred? I use veterinarian because your average equine vet sees more horses in a week than some trainers and sees most horses at their worst. Most people don't ask any one at all.

    Education is great; however, what most are talking about is a wide spread and sweeping regulation on breeding. Look at how much fuss slaughter kicks up in the USA. Now image saying you can't breed your horse because its not good enough. You say someone's horse is not good enough and a lot of people interpret that as "your not good enough". That's why I say its an interesting discussion but in the end, its a discussion that is happening in a very, very small section of society as a whole. If we got all horse owners together in a room. The people discussing ethical breeding would be a tiny group standing by the blaring speakers. Now put all people in the world in a hotel. Equine people are taking up maybe two rooms a hotel compared to the rest of society, ethical breeding discussion is occurring in a corner of a room in a hotel.
    Yet, education made a difference for me. When I was looking for a horse, I wanted a mare so that I could breed her in the future. I even kept a conversation going with a breeder I admire about which of her horses would be worth putting the money into as a good foundation mare or stallion. She never told me not to breed, but rather took the time to prepare me to be a breeder with one of her horses. She taught me many things - and in the end, I doubt she realized the most important thing she taught me: that I have no business breeding on my own. Thing is, all the work, effort, and pride she put into her facility just wasn't for me and I did not feel that I wanted to take the time and effort to create a quality breeding program. And without that same work, effort, and pride in a breeding program, I don't believe I will ever be able to justify at all breeding even one horse on my own.

    I've mainly stayed out of the "regulation" conversation - that's just one aspect. Politics and regulations are just that - and, for better or worse, I personally think the government doesn't have any business in making my personal decisions for me. But again, that is for a different discussion. I believe in education, the power of ideas, and teaching responsibility for one's actions.

    If we can educate ourselves and others about the realities of breeding, maybe I can help just one other horse owner take off the rose-colored glasses and realize they can avoid bringing another foal into the world for an uncertain life and at the same time give a good home a wonderful horse that needs one.
         
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        01-03-2013, 10:31 PM
      #102
    Trained
    It is only a surplus horse if it cannot find a home. Or gets sold everytime its owner "moves up" to something more advanced. Becomes injured or so aged that it cannot be used and is a financial burden. Fails at the discipline it was bred for or doesn't have the Hot pedigree that show people insist on.
    All these things add as much to the unwanted and neglected horses as "back yard Breeders" do..
    Since most horses will never see the inside of an arena IMO those that show and follow the latest trends add to the problem as well by discarding those horses that do not meet their needs.
    If you are going to lay the blame on breeders why not spread it around to all those that add to the problem of unwanted horses. Shalom
    jillybean19 likes this.
         
        01-03-2013, 10:32 PM
      #103
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
    Not to be snippy but, what you choose to do personally is your personal business. Your personal convictions are exactly that, YOURS.

    What I do with my horses, and the includes breeding them, is none of your business and if you came on my place yapping about not breeding, I'd treat you the same way I'd treat someone who started talking to me about birth control (ok, 30 years ago....), I'd show you the gate. It's none of your business how many kids I have, how many mares I put in foal, how I bred them or why. My horses are all registered with at least one registry and those that are of the quality are shown. I pay their bills, I raise my foals and train them, I try to sell them to good homes. I never breed more than I can afford to keep. As long as you're not paying my feed and vet bills, ...... I'd tell you to mind your own. And I suspect, that's what you'll get from a lot of people. I've been breeding since I was a child, my parents bred TB's for the track and I helped with the business.

    I find it incredibly offensive for people who have NO CLUE about breeding and raising foals, training them, maintaining them and their parents, to come tell me what I should or should not be doing with them.
    I didn't tell you not to breed. If you visit my original post, I said that the people who are coming here asking about what they should breed to what and if their horse should be bred, then the answer is probably not.

    You do not sound like someone who would come online to a random forum knowing nothing about breeding trying to breed your horse.
         
        01-03-2013, 10:34 PM
      #104
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jillybean19    
    I didn't tell you not to breed. If you visit my original post, I said that the people who are coming here asking about what they should breed to what and if their horse should be bred, then the answer is probably not.

    You do not sound like someone who would come online to a random forum knowing nothing about breeding trying to breed your horse.
    Sorry, if that's not how you intended your posts to come across. But with every post I read I got more and more of a "Do NOT breed" & "Breeders are evil" message, very loud and very clear.
    jillybean19 likes this.
         
        01-03-2013, 10:36 PM
      #105
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    It is only a surplus horse if it cannot find a home. Or gets sold everytime its owner "moves up" to something more advanced. Becomes injured or so aged that it cannot be used and is a financial burden. Fails at the discipline it was bred for or doesn't have the Hot pedigree that show people insist on.
    All these things add as much to the unwanted and neglected horses as "back yard Breeders" do..
    Since most horses will never see the inside of an arena IMO those that show and follow the latest trends add to the problem as well by discarding those horses that do not meet their needs.
    If you are going to lay the blame on breeders why not spread it around to all those that add to the problem of unwanted horses. Shalom
    I agree with you, but for now, that is a moot point and will fall on deaf ears. However, on a forum like this, I think there is a place for encouraging all those hobby horse owners not to add to the problem, as that is what most of us are. Not all, but most.

    I'm not here to lay blame, but if one person decides that maybe it's not such a good idea to breed their horse just because, then I've made the difference in the life of at least one horse, and maybe others that end of having a better life because there wasn't another surplus horse.
         
        01-03-2013, 10:38 PM
      #106
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
    Sorry, if that's not how you intended your posts to come across. But with every post I read I got more and more of a "Do NOT breed" & "Breeders are evil" message, very loud and very clear.
    No problem - people will take this thread where it goes and likely miss many good points made or the intention behind it. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify why I posted this in the first place, though - to encourage hobby breeders and backyard breeders to think twice about what they're doing. Not sure if you missed it, but there were a few posts by me and others about people who should be breeding. I might just go dig them up and put them together, because there were a few good quotes from responsible breeders who know what they're doing.
         
        01-03-2013, 11:03 PM
      #107
    Yearling
    Examples of people who should be trusted to make breeding decisions:

    Quote:
    Tomorrow is the big day....*********** is scheduled to be gelded. I have mixed feelings. The selfish part of me is very sad, thinking of the beautiful foals he could sire, half-siblings to my beloved ***********. The logical side of me realizes he will be much happier and that his blood lives on through his son. I keep reminding myself of the great adventures he and I will have this spring when I start riding him. - An Arab breeder, who knows that a great stallion makes an awesome gelding
    Quote:
    Speaking of breeders who breed high quality horses still being able to breed and make money - another acquaintance of mine owns a very well known breeding operation for endurance Arabians. I took a look at her horses when I was trying to find an endurance horse, and her unbroken babies were 2-3x the cost of any of the good and at least green broke horses I was looking at. Thing is, she was almost sold out of that year's foals, too. Many of her stock could justifiably be foundation sires and broodmares for future breeders. Her horses have a reputation, and riders from all across the country (and even from other countries) recognize her quality and pay big bucks to get it. Sure things have been tighter during this crappy economy, especially in the horse world, but she still manages to make a decent income because she's built herself up breeding only the best for over half a century. Every pairing is made with extreme attention to detail and decades of knowledge. There is no "I wonder what the foal will be like" - she knows what she's going to get because she paired the sire and dam for something very specific and knows the traits that each tend to produce. And the win records of her horses prove she's got something great and rare with her program.

    That is a breeder I admire, and her horses will always have homes.
    Quote:
    A friend of mine who successfully bred Arabians for years, but gelded her stud when the economy crashed for both her and the horse's sake. She cried about it for weeks, but it was the right thing to do. Not only would it have not been good for her finances to keep producing horses, but there were no homes for them our any other horse to go to.
    Quote:
    My horses are all registered with at least one registry and those that are of the quality are shown. I pay their bills, I raise my foals and train them, I try to sell them to good homes. I never breed more than I can afford to keep... I've been breeding since I was a child, my parents bred TB's for the track and I helped with the business.
    And.... there was another breeder who made some really good comments, too, but I can't find them right now. Sorry!
         
        01-03-2013, 11:07 PM
      #108
    Trained
    Jillybean you are passionate and you care those are good things. I am not disagreeing totally with you.
    If you have to ask total strangers if you should breed your mare and why then you need to educate yourself.
    Too many people do breed just to have a foal. That is not a good enough reason IMO. Shalom
    jillybean19 and chubbypony like this.
         
        01-03-2013, 11:13 PM
      #109
    Yearling
    Lol and sorry if all those at once seemed a little overwhelming - I wanted to respond to quite a few people's comments and did so all at once to get it out haha. A lot of people are making really good points - thanks for making this such a good discussion!
         
        01-03-2013, 11:17 PM
      #110
    Yearling
    Found that last post I was looking for that I liked! Lol, I didn't even realize you were the one that said it until just now Dreamcatcher. I just really liked the way you described it and thought it showed the expertise it takes to be a great breeder!

    Quote:
    I think it's self regulating. I don't sell anything under $5K, won't even list it or discuss it. If I feel a horse isn't worth that much, then I will find it a good home and I will GIVE it to someone as a pet. I'm not in the Dollar General market for horse sales at all. I spend a lot of money acquiring good breeding stock and even owning sire & dam and doing my own collecting, inseminating and breeding without a vet, I still can't put a foal on the ground and make anything if I sell for less than that.
    dbarabians likes this.
         

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