I have a 7-year-old TB mare who was boarded for the last 8 months at a boarding facility. It was very poorly managed and the owner decided to bring in two stallions of his own plus two other people's stallions. None were ever housed in proper stallion pens and the entire facility is in disrepair with broken fences, water, etc. We moved our horses out a couple weeks ago when he ran out of hay and refused to buy more. Long story short, this one mare of ours appeared to be getting more and more distended and we just found out she is pregnant!!! :shock: Does anyone know what the stable's liability is in this situation? Thanks for any help.
What a stinky situation. I would be asking for ALL the marecare bills paid for, but if he wont buy hay for his own horses, chances are you arent getting a dime from him.
You should probably talk with a lawyer to find out exactly what the laws are in that area and what chance you have of winning a liability suit. I would personally want all vet care for mare and foal to come from the BO plus whatever other expenses are associated with caring for a pregnant mare and a baby (special feeds, etc). Also, consider about time lost and such if she is a show horse or a working horse. A lawyer that can review your contract with the BO (if you had one) and is familiar with the local laws and courts would be able to give you a much better plan of attack.
You should probably talk with a lawyer to find out exactly what the laws are in that area and what chance you have of winning a liability suit. I would personally want all vet care for mare and foal to come from the BO plus whatever other expenses are associated with caring for a pregnant mare and a baby (special feeds, etc). Also, consider about time lost and such if she is a show horse or a working horse. A lawyer that can review your contract with the BO (if you had one) and is familiar with the local laws and courts would be able to give you a much better plan of attack.
this is what you should do. Nicely said smrobs. In some states if your horse was a proven show horse the stable owner will be fined hugely and possibly put in jail. But just check some of the state and local laws where you live.
Thanks so much for the feedback. I think we will see if we can find a lawyer who is knowledgable about laws that are relative to our situation. I am just so frustrated! We knew they were clueless at that facility but I didn't realize how bad it was. :evil: I feel terrible that my poor mare has been enduring the less-than-ideal quality hay there all the while trying to support a pregnancy. We are having our vet come out Monday to palpate her so once we have a more definitive idea of where she is at and if the foal is viable we will move forward with contacting a lawyer to see what our options are. I've heard of things like this happening but I never imagined it would happen to me!!! Makes me wonder if I should contact any of the other boarders with mares to tell them to make sure their mares aren't pregnant too. :wink:
^^I definitely would do just that. Also contact the two boarders stallions and let them know of the possibility that it was their stallion that did it.
I don't have any contact info for either of the two people who had stallions out there unfortunately. One of them I know the first name of the owner and the other I know absolutely nothing about. Again, very poorly managed facility. I will definately ask around though and see if anyone else has contact info for the owners of those stallions. The other two stallions are owned by the stable owner. With so many stallys it's hard to know whose to blame!! I did contact the stable owner to let him know what was going on but haven't heard back from him. I doubt he will ever call me back. All the boarders left when I left a couple weeks ago but I am friends with all of them so easy to let them know what's going on. I wonder if there are any other mystery foals???? :lol:
Hmmmm....another interesting question will be, if it was a boarder stallion, who should pay for your mares foaling/related vet bills? The BO (since its his fault) or the stallions owner (since its their stallion)?
Alison Finch is right no matter who's stallion it is ,it is the BO that is responsible. They were under his care and therefore responsible and if the BO wants they can sue the stallion if it wasn't theirs. It is your right to sue any and all parties and if you can only find one of the parties responsible then they get the full brunt of any settlement.
I believe a lawyer will get you to name all parties...BO and both stallion owners. The judge will assess damages accordingly.
I really hope you're not Canadian, in which case there's not much the justice system will do for you.
If you're not Canadian, best of luck to you and I hope you get the whole situation worked out, what a terrible position to be in though
I'm not Canadian so hopefully that will help me from a legal standpoint! My mare is a Thoroughbred and all four stallions are quarter horses. Two are registered, and the other two are not. I'm really hoping it was one of the registered ones because they were much better looking stallys than those two mutt-type quarter horses!
Here's another problem. If the stallions are valuable show horses, the owners could sue to have the foal euthanized at birth. It is their right to have only mares of their choosing produce offspring. They may not want just any mare being bred.
The BO would be responsible to you, not the stallion owner. Just be aware that the stallions owner has rights too. They could demand a DNA test to prove the stallion and then act accordingly.
Wow... I would be absolutely livid in a situation like that...
Although you most likely would not get a lump sum from the BO to pay for expenses related to the pregnancy, if you contact a lawyer and have a court ordered settlement, you will eventually get your money... It may be $50 a month until the entire amount the court awards gets paid, but they can't avoid paying forever....
You should be able to add the incurred legal fees to the amount your asking for also, because you wouldn't have to be hiring a lawyer if the incident wouldn't have happened... Just remember no matter what seems to be happening, remain calm and polite... Your attitude, especially in front of the judge, can have an impact on the final outcome....
I hope all goes well. The same thing happened to us. My mare was so sick at the trainers she almost died - salmonella - they have pigeons. Then their stallion got loose. They swore nothing happened and the vet said since she was so sick she doubted she would take - well 11 months later and much too early in the cold winter time a filly was born. The trainers only response was that they wanted the filly - they did not get her. My mare lost so much weight as she was underweight to start with and it was an uphill battle. Thank goodness we were trying to put weight on her when we did not know she was pregnant. IT was a nightmare but we learned a lesson about just trusting people ( we thought these were good people) . It has turned out fine (except for what my mare went thru) - the filly was given away to a good home as we did not want one right now. We are from Canada and did not even try to do anything. Best of luck.
It does seem that ultimately the boarding stable would bear the brunt of liability. Especially since standard of care was not met with respect to the fact that the fences are all broken and falling down and the stallions were not properly housed. So sorry to hear someone else went through this as well! Although, I have to say now that the shock is wearing off I'm more just excited at the prospect of a foal!!!
>>> Here's another problem. If the stallions are valuable show horses, the owners could sue to have the foal euthanized at birth. It is their right to have only mares of their choosing produce offspring. They may not want just any mare being bred.
>>> The BO would be responsible to you, not the stallion owner. Just be aware that the stallions owner has rights too. They could demand a DNA test to prove the stallion and then act accordingly.
I doubt that the stallion owner's rights extend to having a foal euthanized in this type of situation. The stallion owner could sue the barn owner if the barn owner did not properly care for and isolate their stallion, and for any losses incurred by letting him breed "unauthorized" mares. But if it came down to it, it could be argued that the stallion owner, as owner of a potentially dangerous animal (according to most state laws regarding keeping stallions) should have removed their stallion from a situation where the stallion was not properly/legally kept. In some states, farm owners are still allowed to SHOOT stallions that are loose and harrassing their horses.....
I know of two situations where mares were bred without the stallion owners permission. Boarders snuck mares to the stallion. On both occasions the stallion owners sued to have the mares aborted. Both cases were won by the stallion owners. I think this could be decided in a similar manner.
I had a simialar situation once - though it was the other way around. I purchased a mare from an older gentleman who boarded her at a trail riding facility. The old man allowed the BO to use his horse as a trail horse on their string - however the BO took merciless advantage of the old man, who was too trusting and lacked a lot of knowledge about horses. When I purchased the mare, the BO tried to prevent me from removing her from their facility, because she was bred to their grade paint stallion. I spoke to the mare's previous owner, and he had no knowledge of the mare being bred and had never given permission for the mare to be bred - which I passed along to the BO. They then backpedalled a bit, tried to shift blame to their staff, stating that the girls that worked for them had "accidentally" taken the wrong mare up to the stallion's pen, but that they were still entitled to the foal. They tried to tell me they would "do whatever it takes" to prevent me from removing the mare from their property, they claimed they had legal rights to keep the mare on their property until she foaled and keep the foal. I got a hold of a lawyer who drew up legal documentation including notarized statements from the previous owner that they had not had permission to breed the mare, and stating that they would be responsible for all vet costs, and that they were NOT entitled to the foal, along with further legal action being taken if they DID attempt to stop me from removing my horse from their property. Copies of the documentation were sent to the barn owner, previous owner of the mare, and to the local courthouse. I was ready to go to court over this situation if it came to that, however it never did. I arrived to remove my mare from the facility with a police escort, and had no problems at all from the BO after that. A vet was called out to my property to do an exam on the mare, as it turns out she wasn't pregnant (thank goodness - the barn owners had never even had her checked) but the boarding facility was still sent the vet bill for that visit. I assume they paid it as the vet never contacted me about it.
To the OP - I hope it all works out for the best and you are able to find a way to get the BO to take responsibility. Sometimes, a letter is all it takes - just let them know you are serious!
I agree that not voluntarily having my mare bred puts my situation in a bit of a different light. However, I do appreciate the point that the stallion owner may try to stake some sort of claim over what happens to the foal. This whole waiting game until Monday to find out how far along she is and if the foal is viable is killing me!!! Getting that information will also help me figure out which of the stallions may be responsible as they have all been at the facility at different times.
If it turns out that she was bred by one of the registered stallions, I could see them refusing to sign a breeding report and allowing the foal to be registered (I don't even know if there is a registry for half QH? Is there?) They may ask for a breeding fee in exchange for a breeding certificate. I sure hope that they wouldn't be so petty that they would want to kill a foal....
a TB/QH cross is an appendix QH. I think they are allowed to register. I agree that they might not allow the foal to be registered, which to me would be a perfectly fine price to pay (or lack thereof, no filing fees!) for having a foal you didn't plan on!
I apologize for double posting, but another thing to consider is, could the BO hold up a case claiming he has no money to pay you? I was burglarized a few months ago, and I couldn't sue the xssholes because they were heroin addicts who burglarized, gave their findings to pawn shops, and were given their heroin for the week from the pawn dealers. The case they're holding up in court is that they have no money.....which is probably true, given they have only a car, clothes, and they rent an apartment. If we tried to sue them for the worth of their car, the judge would say they would need that car to drive to a job if they ever got one. Make sure you have a rebuttal if anything like that were to arise
In which case, if the BO owns the property or another property, then a lien can be placed on it so that it will eventually be paid. Another alternative is a Sheriff's sale of assets that the barn owner has.
Trying to collect from an addict is far different from collecting from someone who actually owns something. BTW, if the BO is renting the facility, then a lawyer will probably enjoin the actual owner of the property.
I would say DNA testing will let you know who the stallion is. I know you can do this with the AQHA, Thoroughbred i am not that sure of but it is something to look into this should also give you the name of the stallion and the owner at the time of breeding if they are registered
So sorry to hear of this tangled mess. I hope your vet finds your mare to be in good heath as well as her foal.
I wouldn't hesitate to get a lawyer on board. This lawyer is going to want as much evidence as possible and will most likely want pictures among other things of the facility etc.
I have heard the DNA testing is expensive, but the party that is held accountable will/should have to pay for said testing as well.
What a mess.
Hope your girl and her foal will be okay...please keep us posted.
Hp
Wow, there are so many things to consider!! My husband and I have been talking about the potential problems stemming from the owner of the stallion that bred her. We are still in the dark as to how far along my mare is, but our best guess is that she is pretty darn far. Her belly is really big and she is bagging up already. I'm still so anxious to see what the vet says tomorrow. That said, aborting the fetus is not something we will do unless there is a medical reason to do so (risk to mare, problem with foal, etc.) No WAY am I going to allow any of those stallion owners to try and lay claim to or force euthanasia on this poor little foal. All three stallion owners are not quality breeders meaning they don't seem to have a clue as to how to properly care for or take responsibility for their studs. One of the owners thought it was funny to turn her stallion out in the pen alongside the arena while my daughters were riding their mare when she was in heat. Sheesh. Anyways, don't get me started on a rant. ha, ha. I just want what's best for my poor mare who looks hugely uncomfortable and for this little foal.
There was a good point made about poor finances with respect to the stable owner. He is definately not in sound financial shape and will likely try to get out of any type of payment to us by saying he doesn't have the money. He does own the property where the stable is so perhaps a lien against the property could be forced. We took pictures of the facility, crappy moldy hay, broken waterers, broken gates where the stallions were etc. the day before we left. At the time I was more concerned with the fact that one of my horses might have a health issue because of the crappy care. Little did I know we'd be dealing with this! So now I am happy I took all those pictures. I got the name of a lawyer from a friend who deals with laws pertaining to horses so I will see what she says when I meet with her this week.
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