Not sure if my mare is pregnant - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 136 Old 06-03-2013, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NBEventer View Post
That post wasn't directed towards you. I was just speaking in general. Lower the hackles. One of the disadvantages of the internet is it doesn't relay tone very well. Trust me though, I am not attacking you.

My post was a general statement that there are so many people out there that don't act responsibly when it comes to breeding.

Pull some hairs from your mare and get her tested for all the genetic diseases that can be carried such as HYPP, HERDA, OWLS etc etc etc
I'm sorry for taking it offensively. Will my vet be able to test the hair? Also, the stallion is purebred paint and the mare is Quarter horse/Thoroughbred. People were asking for the breeds. I'll take pics when I take her out for her grain. Do you know any diseases those breeds can carry? And if so, the affects they have towards the foal. Also, why do rescues have greater risks of a bad pregnancy/birth. If the foal is in danger I will do what's best and abort it. I'm not sure if Dreamcatcher Arabians is still reading this forum but aborting is not off the table, I didn't realize all the risks when I said that (I apologize). The diseases, HYPP, HERDA, OLWS, etc.. What do they do to the foal? If I do need to sell the foal, if there's no problems with my mare, I have 2 homes that it can go to.. That's if I can't take care of it/have the money for it.
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post #52 of 136 Old 06-03-2013, 09:10 PM
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The stallion NEEDS to be tested for OWLS/Lethal White, especially if he is a paint. The mare needs to as well. The mare should be tested for HYPP if she has QH in her. Do you know her blood lines at all?

OWLS/Lethal White causes the foal to be born with an incomplete digestive system and it will die within hours of being born a very painful death.

Overo Lethal White Syndrome or "O. L. W. S.", is a terminal defect that inevitably kills newborn foals. It is one of many birth defects that trouble breeders. Lethal "white" foals have blue or washed out grayish eyes (not like true albinos who have pink eyes) and generally have no skin pigmentation at all, although in many cases, some foals have a touch of dark coloration here and there on the body. We had one born with a tail that was partially black. Other than the partially pigmented tail, this absolutely gorgeous foal was snow white. Breeders have reported foals born with small dark spots.

The foals initially appear normal except for their unusual coloring. They're usually breathtakingly beautiful and perfectly conformed. The foals stand and nurse and start playing next to their mothers, like any normal foal. Then you notice that they don't have a bowel movement after they nurse or when you give them an enema. Signs of colic, or intestinal cramping generally begin, from one hour to twelve hours following birth, due to the foal's inability to pass feces. The "lethal white" foal has an underdeveloped and contracted intestine. In most cases, the intestine simply stops short of the anal opening so the food cannot pass all the way through the foal's digestive system. This problem is caused by a failure of the embryonic cells that form nerves in the gastrointestinal system, and attempts to surgically bypass the problem have, to date, been unsuccessful.
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Last edited by NBEventer; 06-03-2013 at 09:14 PM.
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post #53 of 136 Old 06-03-2013, 09:13 PM
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Here is a link LWO - Lethal White Overo Testing

BB ~ 2014 Trakehner Bratty Mare ~ 1993 CSHA Em ~ 2007 Standardbred
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post #54 of 136 Old 06-03-2013, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you. I will talk to the owner of the stallion and ask if he's been tested and I will have my mare tested.
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post #55 of 136 Old 06-03-2013, 09:24 PM
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I don't know if your mare has any white or not. But even if she doesn't she NEEDS to be tested. There was a member whos mare did not have a speck of white and she was positive for frame. So all mares should be tested.

HYPP your vet can test
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BB ~ 2014 Trakehner Bratty Mare ~ 1993 CSHA Em ~ 2007 Standardbred
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post #56 of 136 Old 06-03-2013, 09:46 PM
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Equine Testing Service Cost

Here's a link to the lab I use for testing. They're reliable, quick and pretty reasonable prices.

HYPP can show up as NOTHING or all the way to severe Seizures in the horse. Some can be controlled by diet and low stress and others...nothing can really control the seizures and they end up having to be put down. Traces back to Impressive in the pedigree. (QH, PAINT)

HERDA shows up around 2 years of age and basically means the skin will split and slide off, basically right where the saddle would sit. Most of these horses are put down. Traces to Poco Bueno in the pedigree. (QH, PAINT)

GBED fatal condition due to the bodies inability to store sugar. (QH, PAINT)

PSSM & MH are both related and can cause severe tying up (QH, PAINT)

These are all diseases that Quarter Horses and their related breeds can have. The do a combo test for $95 at the lab I linked to. They can also test for OLWS at the same time.
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post #57 of 136 Old 06-03-2013, 10:22 PM
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So this stud is not your's, then? If she is pregnant and you decided to abort the baby, I believe you can hold the stud owner responsible for all vet fees. I'm not sure how long the window is to get the Lute(abortion shot), and if you would be able to get the results of her disease panel back in that time frame. I know it can take at least a couple weeks to be returned. It really is a tough decision, I feel for you. If the baby comes out colored, he/she could be registered PtHA, so that is a plus in case the baby will be sold in the future.

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there in the midst of sacred pollen hidden, all hidden he; how joyous his neigh
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post #58 of 136 Old 06-03-2013, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
Why can't I breed a rescue?

In some cases, and you may want to check with the contract you signed with the rescue, breeding a rescue horse voids the contract and you must return the horse. This is actually a fairly standard and boiler plate clause for most rescues.
Now this might not be the case, but it is a legitimate reason.

Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
why does my horse have to be registered? The stallion is registered, I already know that and why can't I breed a rescue?

The horse doesn't HAVE to be registered, HOWEVER, unregistered horses, tend to have a not so great time in life. And just because it bred with a registered stallion doesn't automatically make it eligible for registration.

As an example: If the stallion were a TB, just b/c you bred with a TB doesn't mean you can register the foal with the Jockey Club.

If it were a AQHA stallion, it doesn't automatically mean it gets AQHA papers.

Typically to be register both parents have to be registered with the same group for thefoal to be eligible. he few registries that require only one parent to be registered are Warmbloods, in which case the foal will have to be inspected before the breed association.

OR they are the equivalents of the Continental Kennel Club; and they're just a group trying legitimize horse-puppy-mills and ignorant back-yard-breeders. In these cases they're not worth the papers they're printed on.
Horses with papers, generally sell for more money, are more in demand and have an automatic stamp of quality attached to them (even though that last ideal is hogwash).

The hard facts are, as much as there are no bad horses, there is NO demand for Oops babies. At least not long term good homes. Even if it DID have papers, thatís not a guarantee either.

Slaughter auctions are filled every month with well bred registered horses that still end up in dog food or on dinner plates.

There is a great quote from a Benedictine nun, named Sister Joan Chittister

"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. ... That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth."

And to a certain extent that is what the other commentor was talking about. The likely hood of an Oops baby horse suffering at some point is statistcally 99.99% Should it be when the age is measured in weeks and where a nervous system hasn't developed yet?
Or is it kinder to let it be later in life after being ignored, starved, or beaten, or worse simply sold for food when its owner can't afford to keep it.
Breeding isn't about making making adoable babies, its about directing and perfecting a breed, for a specific purpose.
It is 100% every day and every dollar about investment; Investing of time, money, resources, happiness, health, education, and love.
And if you don't have an excess in every one of those areas, then you need to expect problems because foals are a bank account blank hole and a complete time suck, and if you don't do it right they are dangerous.

I think these are the warnings that the other posted is trying to convey.
I am a breeder and an agent, and as a breeder I can tell you that the reasons my horses come back to me (b/c I will always take one of my horses back no questions to ensure they have a good life, all quality breeders do) and as an agent of Sport Horses, the top three reasons why people get rid of their horses:
1. They don't have the money to keep it.
2. They're getting a divorce and don't have the money, (and usually they don't have money b/c of the horse).
3. They are going off to college and don't have the time to sell it or the money to keep it.
I think other posters are just trying to warn you that, unless you can guarantee within a sixth sigma of your prediction model that none of these situations can ever happen.
My best advise is to call the vet out and make sure 100% proof positive. And then pay the bill. And if the bill for the farm call, the drugs, the palpation, the ultrasound do not phase you at all and you can still have steak and lobster the rest of the week. Then you might have a chance.
But if you pay that bill and it hurts; like you're going to be eating hamburger helper instead of Applebee's to make up for it ... then call the vet out and get a flush, because a confirmed pregnancy bill is one of the cheaper expenses.

I promise I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just trying to be gentle and logical in an area, I am very experienced in.
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post #59 of 136 Old 06-04-2013, 01:42 AM
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Serenity if that foal is born healthy and with a decent conformation it will have value. Papers or not. Grades are not destined for the slaughter house anymore than a registered horse is. Just as many show horses are passed from home to home when their owners want a more advanced horse.
Only 500 - 750,000 horses are sent to slaughter every year there are over 7,000,000 horses in the US.
as long as you take the time to take the time to train that foal its probably going to be OK.
I have rescued over 10 horses in the last 2 years. I have sent them to be trained professionally. All have have found good homes for a good price . 1,000- 3,000 $ all have been grade. Shalom
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post #60 of 136 Old 06-04-2013, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians View Post
Appy, it's partially the "none of your Beezwax" arguement and partially it's because she stated very clearly in her 2nd post on this topic,

"If she's pregnant I'm deffinently going through with her pregnancy."

Once that's said, flushing or aborting the pregnancy in any way is off the table. If she'd been the least bit hesitant in her decision I could see maybe trying to talk to her some more about options, but she was very clear on her wishes. At that point, it's none of my business and all about just trying to be helpful. I had already talked about giving a Lutalyse or Prostin shot, or flushing or several of the ways an unwanted pregnancy can be terminated. She let me know very quickly and very clearly that those were not options she cared to discuss.

I wouldn't push a 14 year old girl who got pregnant once she clearly stated, "I will not terminate this pregnancy, I will carry to term.". End of discussion, at least for me.
Well that may depend on the level of knowledge that the statement came from. It may well be that (not saying that the Op is in this case) a person does not know the risks and costs involved. Saying "Oh I'm going to keep it" without knowing the facts is not a decision, it's a gut reaction.

If knowing about the all the realities of risk to mare and foal the Op decides to let her carry the pregnancy, well then it is different.

We all come from different places on this discussion, and for me the risks outweigh the benefits.
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