Paco's Pregnancy Update!! ** Baby is Here ** - Page 3
 
 

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Paco's Pregnancy Update!! ** Baby is Here **

This is a discussion on Paco's Pregnancy Update!! ** Baby is Here ** within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Breeding stallion
  • The unknown but not hidden

View Poll Results: Color and Gender?
Black and White Tobiano Colt 6 27.27%
Black and White Tobiano Filly 9 40.91%
Bay and White Tobiano Colt 7 31.82%
Black and White Tobiano Filly 0 0%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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    04-24-2013, 11:04 AM
  #21
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesthetic    
I sure hope so! He's tested homozygus black and white and possible bay and white with tobiano pattern! (: His first colt came out with one blue eye<3
I am confused... Is he homozygous tobiano (the color pattern) or homozygous black? Or was he tested and is homozygous black and homozygous tobiano? Even with the tobiano pattern, you are not always going to get a loud expression. There could be little or no white even though the foal received a tobiano gene. If he is homozygous black, you will get a black, bay or brown. Homozygous tobiano means the foal will get the tobiano gene but you will not know how much expression you will get.
     
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    04-24-2013, 12:10 PM
  #22
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDraco    
I am confused... Is he homozygous tobiano (the color pattern) or homozygous black? Or was he tested and is homozygous black and homozygous tobiano? Even with the tobiano pattern, you are not always going to get a loud expression. There could be little or no white even though the foal received a tobiano gene. If he is homozygous black, you will get a black, bay or brown. Homozygous tobiano means the foal will get the tobiano gene but you will not know how much expression you will get.
Yes he is homozygus for both. And I am aware. With the last mare he was bred with he threw a black and white tobiano colt. He has only been bred twice, and this foal will be an expirement as to what he foals with a sorrel. He can throw bay and black, the vet said something how a brown will be very unlikely since t is without black points. I don't really how true that statement is.
     
    04-24-2013, 01:14 PM
  #23
Started
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesthetic    
Yes he is homozygus for both. And I am aware. With the last mare he was bred with he threw a black and white tobiano colt. He has only been bred twice, and this foal will be an expirement as to what he foals with a sorrel. He can throw bay and black, the vet said something how a brown will be very unlikely since t is without black points. I don't really how true that statement is.
Vets are great for horse care but not color genetics, that is not what their focus is. The mare is the deciding factor for the foal's color in this case.

Your stallion is EE aa, which means he is homozygous black and no agouti.

Your mare is ee _ _, which means she is recessive red and agouti unknown.

The foal will be Ee _a, black from the sire, red from the mare, unknown agouti from mare, non-agouti from sire.
If your mare throws no agouti, foal will be a heterozygous black. If your mare throws the dominant agouti (A), you will get a bay foal. If your mare throws the A+ agouti, you will have a brown.

Brown comes in many shades and forms, is great at disguising as a bay, many go through seasonal color changes, has black points as well. A large number of horses registered as bay are genetically brown. A tell tale sign of brown is when those "bay" horses get light colored soft spots when they are in their winter coats.
     
    04-24-2013, 03:00 PM
  #24
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDraco    
Vets are great for horse care but not color genetics, that is not what their focus is. The mare is the deciding factor for the foal's color in this case.

Your stallion is EE aa, which means he is homozygous black and no agouti.

Your mare is ee _ _, which means she is recessive red and agouti unknown.

The foal will be Ee _a, black from the sire, red from the mare, unknown agouti from mare, non-agouti from sire.
If your mare throws no agouti, foal will be a heterozygous black. If your mare throws the dominant agouti (A), you will get a bay foal. If your mare throws the A+ agouti, you will have a brown.

Brown comes in many shades and forms, is great at disguising as a bay, many go through seasonal color changes, has black points as well. A large number of horses registered as bay are genetically brown. A tell tale sign of brown is when those "bay" horses get light colored soft spots when they are in their winter coats.
thank you, ill write this down and keep it in mind. I am not really picky on my colors. I do also know if the stallion is bred to a red roan mare, he will throw a roan im told by vets, and that he will throw either a blue roan, or a bay roan. Im really hoping to test that. I really need to freshen up on the color genetics.
     
    04-24-2013, 03:52 PM
  #25
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesthetic    
thank you, ill write this down and keep it in mind. I am not really picky on my colors. I do also know if the stallion is bred to a red roan mare, he will throw a roan im told by vets, and that he will throw either a blue roan, or a bay roan. Im really hoping to test that. I really need to freshen up on the color genetics.
Again, the stallion does not produce or throw roan when he does not have it. If he is bred to a roan mare, she might be heterozygous roan and have a 50% chance to pass the gene to the foal. If he is bred to a mare with a dun, the foal could be grullo or bay dun if the mare throws her dun to the foal. If bred to a grey mare, the foal will be grey if the mare throws it. Roan, grey, dun and cream are modifiers and cover any base coat (although cream can hide on some black based horses, but turns bays into buckskins, browns into brownskins and chestnuts into palominos).

Your stallion can only give 1 black gene and 1 non-agouti gene to all his foals. He does not carry any genes that modify/restrict the black to make bays/browns. He could "produce" bays, roans, buckskins, smokey black, grullo, bay dun, and grey but it is the mare that he is bred to that would be determining the color by her own color genetics.

If you tested the agouti status of your sorrel/chestnut mare and the results were:
Aa -100% chance your foal will be black with this cross
Aa -50% chance for black, 50% chance bay/brown -depending on the agouti
AA -100% chance for bay/brown

The great thing about breeding homozygous horses is that the color guessing is simplified. Just so you know, when your homozygous black (EE) stallion is bred to a black mare (EE or Ee), you will get a black foal every time.
     
    04-24-2013, 04:03 PM
  #26
Green Broke
Sunny!!!! Oh no you didn't!!!!! *look at that avatar* ..
SunnyDraco likes this.
     
    04-24-2013, 08:34 PM
  #27
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDraco    
Again, the stallion does not produce or throw roan when he does not have it. If he is bred to a roan mare, she might be heterozygous roan and have a 50% chance to pass the gene to the foal. If he is bred to a mare with a dun, the foal could be grullo or bay dun if the mare throws her dun to the foal. If bred to a grey mare, the foal will be grey if the mare throws it. Roan, grey, dun and cream are modifiers and cover any base coat (although cream can hide on some black based horses, but turns bays into buckskins, browns into brownskins and chestnuts into palominos).

Your stallion can only give 1 black gene and 1 non-agouti gene to all his foals. He does not carry any genes that modify/restrict the black to make bays/browns. He could "produce" bays, roans, buckskins, smokey black, grullo, bay dun, and grey but it is the mare that he is bred to that would be determining the color by her own color genetics.

If you tested the agouti status of your sorrel/chestnut mare and the results were:
Aa -100% chance your foal will be black with this cross
Aa -50% chance for black, 50% chance bay/brown -depending on the agouti
AA -100% chance for bay/brown

The great thing about breeding homozygous horses is that the color guessing is simplified. Just so you know, when your homozygous black (EE) stallion is bred to a black mare (EE or Ee), you will get a black foal every time.
I am aware of this, I have never had my mare tested since what she throws isn't all to important to me. I only test the stallion. Now his tested papers and everything isn't with me at the place I am now. With this mare, it will be I suppose a Brown and white, bay and white, or a black and white foal correct? I ruled brown out with one of the vets a while back but seeing as you are very educated on this subject you are most likely right. I'm not the one who bothered with the coloring, that would be my fiance who understands it.
     
    04-24-2013, 09:53 PM
  #28
Yearling





This one below is the Edema on her belly right infront of her bag.

Okay, see how her bag still hands from the top with loose skin? The bottom seems hard and full but there is no milk. Is this possibly mastitis?



These are from tonight.
     
    04-24-2013, 10:22 PM
  #29
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesthetic    
I am aware of this, I have never had my mare tested since what she throws isn't all to important to me. I only test the stallion. Now his tested papers and everything isn't with me at the place I am now. With this mare, it will be I suppose a Brown and white, bay and white, or a black and white foal correct? I ruled brown out with one of the vets a while back but seeing as you are very educated on this subject you are most likely right. I'm not the one who bothered with the coloring, that would be my fiance who understands it.
I think understanding this is made easier with an illustration:

Stallion (just like yours) is EE aa -


Bred to a mare with an unknown agouti status, ee _ _ (but hidden under a single grey gene that she did not pass on this time and we know her base color because she was bred and raised by my sister). Together they produced a beautiful colt that appeared bay


He was registered as bay (which is common for the disguised browns to be registered as bay). But when his winter coat came in:

^notice the very light undersides of his flank area and by his muzzle? That is caused by the A+ form of agouti (brown)

Looking forward to see your little foal
BrieannaKelly likes this.
     
    04-24-2013, 10:24 PM
  #30
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDraco    
I think understanding this is made easier with an illustration:

Stallion (just like yours) is EE aa -


Bred to a mare with an unknown agouti status, ee _ _ (but hidden under a single grey gene that she did not pass on this time and we know her base color because she was bred and raised by my sister). Together they produced a beautiful colt that appeared bay


He was registered as bay (which is common for the disguised browns to be registered as bay). But when his winter coat came in:

^notice the very light undersides of his flank area and by his muzzle? That is caused by the A+ form of agouti (brown)

Looking forward to see your little foal
Thank You! You are literally the only person who figured I was a visual learner, because very much so I am. Now I'll pay very close attention to looking for those lighter brown area's when her foal comes. (:
SunnyDraco likes this.
     

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aqha, close, foaling, mare, pregnant

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