Pattern Help!!

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Pattern Help!!

This is a discussion on Pattern Help!! within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Tobiano paint horses with blue lines
  • Horse eyes blue outline

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    12-15-2009, 01:36 AM
Green Broke
Pattern Help!!

This is just driving me nuts and I was hoping someone could help. I may have posted about this before, LOL, I'm just so clueless!

Do you guys think Jynx is a tobiano or a tovero? I know her face marking indicates towards tovero (either splash or sabino working in there) and yet Betty swears her parents were tobiano. I've seen photos of her sire, he is without a doubt a black tobiano. I also have her full pedigree now, and it's just straight tobianos. So unless the registries got it mixed up, which I assume could be the case...or maybe overo was hiding in one of those "solid" Quarter Horses in her pedigree? GAR! I've been calling her tobiano since Betty swears her dam was tobiano but how do I even find out for sure? She obviously HAS tobiano, and I know you can test for sabino 1 but what about splash?

I also know people say a true tobiano cannot have blue eyes, but I find that a little suspicious considering the Oklahama University that does the testing even says they can. And you can find listings for homozygous tobianos with blue eyes.

Her "non-tobiano" looking side.

And her pedigree:
Jezebel Jynx Paint
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    12-15-2009, 02:12 AM
Looks like splash and tobiano to me. Maybe with some sabino in there to get that torn paper look. I just love that blue eye against the black coat.

Splash likes a white chest and white face. It also has a smoother appearance. Splash whitens from the bottom up and tobiano (mostly concerning just the tail with tobiano) top to bottom.
    12-15-2009, 02:22 AM
Green Broke
That's what I kind of figured - with the sharp line of her facial marking and the lack of a characteristic tobiano chest plate, it looks like she has splash affecting the frontal part of her body. But do I just assume the registries were wrong in her lineage then?
    12-15-2009, 02:47 AM
Wouldn't be the first time lol. My grandma's QH mare is written down as a brown when she's a sooty bay. I dunno I don't follow the whole tovero/overo paint horse world way of saying things. I just call the patterns as I see them. I think tovero/overo are confusing for most people and a lot of people use the phrases on the wrong kind of markings.

Patterns can also be easily mistaken for a different pattern or hide from the eye or just be plain hard to spot. I am by far no expert on genes and markings either.
    12-15-2009, 08:59 AM
Doesn't mean her lineage is wrong. Splash can hide very effectively, and has hidden in the QH gene pool for a long time. A horse with as little white as an hourglass shaped blaze and a front anklet could be splash and pass on splash. (probably even less white depending on what else was "in there" was supressing the expression of white).

Splash could have also traveled along in her tobiano ancestry-- take a look at the hourglass-shaped white face and big white nose (both clues for more minimally expressed splash) on her maternal grandsire Hydro Flash Cat--
    12-15-2009, 09:12 AM
Green Broke
She's got a moon eye? Very pretty. Looks like a Tobiano.
    12-15-2009, 05:51 PM
Green Broke
Easttowest - Makes sense! So in your professional opinion, would that sharp facial marking of hers be a dead giveaway for splash? Should I ignore her lineage and assume she has splash hiding to be able to produce a face marking like that and lack the chest shield?
    12-15-2009, 09:24 PM
>>>>>Easttowest - Makes sense! So in your professional opinion, would that sharp facial marking of hers be a dead giveaway for splash? Should I ignore her lineage and assume she has splash hiding to be able to produce a face marking like that and lack the chest shield?

To me, she "feels" like she has splash. To me, its not really "ignoring" anything in her lineage-- just realizing that registry descriptions and personal/breeder descriptions sometimes only document the most obvious pattern and don't catch/describe less obvious patterns the horse may also have-- particularly in a case like her, where she is obviously tobiano, and less obviously "something else' as well as tobiano.
    12-17-2009, 04:27 PM
This horse is still a Tobiano. But also carries splash. Splash and frame cause blue eyes not Tobiano. It is almost rare anymore to find a horse that only carries Tobiano. A Tobiano only horse will have no white on the head. This is what some refer to as a "true" Tobiano but that is not correct to say that a Tobiano horse that also carries splash and or sabino is not a "True" tobiano. You can test for Tobiano but it would be silly in your case as you know looking at the horse its Tobiano. But a test could tell you if the horse is homozygous for Tobiano

And you are correct in that Splash is what covered up the chest shield your horse would have had if it didnt carry splash.
    12-22-2009, 08:25 PM
She's tobiano with splash. A typical tobiano looks like the mare in my avatar. The differences between my mare and your horse are:
1.) The chest shield is covered
2.) The color on the horse should have a "blue" outline.

Since yours goes straight from black to white, you can safely assume there is a splash gene in there!

Her right flank looks like a bearded man facing her butt! CUTE!

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