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Perfection has arrived...am I ready?

6K views 37 replies 17 participants last post by  stablegirl 
#1 ·
Yep that's right, I'm posting a breeding thread! Things have changed and I'd like some honest opinions.

I've always considered breeding Zierra - I know she is not an example of perfection in her breed, but living in Manitoba we have a SERIOUS shortage of Arabians. The breed is practically endangered where I live, Arabs for sale are virtually unheard of. We do have several studs available, none of which I am interested in. I was looking at Khartoon Khlassic for awhile, but was unsure about the potential issues with distance.

I have just discovered that one of our renowned endurance competitors is bringing in possibly the greatest Arab to ever set hoof in Manitoba. I am completely blown away. He was imported from Poland to the US in 2007 and now is coming here. He was a halter champion in BOTH Europe and US (Top Five/Ten at Scottsdale). He was raced in Poland, and has sired racehorses. Most notably though, he is known for siring absolutely amazing sporthorse Arabs that look good and can do anything you ask of them.

So I have a few options at this point and would love opinions. Zierra is unregistered, so the foal would be registered Half-Arab which I don't have a problem with, but need to compete in any Arab shows or work towards legion of merit in endurance. The foal would be completely personal - and if I COULDN'T keep it, I can guarantee I would have zero problems selling it in Manitoba for a very decent price. I would be selling Jynx going into this endeavor after a breeding exam verified Zierra as being sound for breeding. She just turned 12 years old this month and is a maiden - any opinions on that? If so, what is the longest you would advise waiting before breeding pending breeding soundness approval?

A quick search of Equine Hits shows no Arabs for sale in Manitoba. There are a handful for sale in Ontario and a few more throughout Canada, mostly older or not suited for what I want. Kijiji shows a Friesian/Arab for sale (no), as well as a 15 year old mare for sale and another for lease. We DO have a farm that breeds for PMU and have several registered Arabs and Half-Arabs for sale. A link to their site:

HEDGEVILLE FARMS

I would not be opposed to potentially buying something there, but these are not quality animals. They are decent, but very much just mass produced with not much by way of notable bloodlines or accomplishments. I have heard very little about any of their horses competing around here, and the ones I HAVE heard of are not the Arabs.

So that brings me to *Empres, the glory of my eye:

*Empres PASB - Pure Polish Arabian stallion - *Empres PASB

And his soon to be owner also posted this amazing video of one of his sons in Poland, named Best Under Saddle Arabian for 2009. He's also shown on the offspring page and noted for all his success in a HUGE variety of disciplines.



And of course we get to Zierra. She was born with me, daughter of a little bay abused and neglected unregistered mare my uncle came to own. We are unsure who her sire was, but the breeding was kept very much in the family and my uncle had a falling out with the CAHA and stopped registering his horses. So we know she's the same blend of mostly Crabbet and a bit of Egyptian lines that ALL the Arabians around here are. She is a super athletic mare with a fantastic attitude. She has the greatest mind I've ever worked with, and is just a doll. I trust this horse with my life. She's done it all - distance riding, Dressage, jumping, gaming. We haven't competed much, but she won 1st and 3rd at her very first Dressage show, as well as a couple years ago took a TON of ribbons for me at a big local gymkhana (1sts for flag, egg and spoon, juice box race, 2nd for ribbon race, and 3rd for pole bending). My biggest concern has been the issues with her legs and feet, which I am quickly seeing has been the cause of bad farrier work years ago. In six months, we've brought her feet back to near perfection and her leg injuries as a result are healed. She's never actually gone lame, just suffered some damage to her tendon sheaths.

A few pics of her to judge yourself:


A few months old


3 years old


As a 4 year old


First time free jumping at 4


Free jumping 3'9" at 5


Riding (9 years old)


Jumping in a halter (9 years old)


Standing square (10 years old)


Movement (10 years old)

And for fun, this is the only vid I could find, I apologize for it's annoyingness skip to 3:25 to see Zierra pole bending - this is the FIRST time she EVER did pole bending. Just as an example of the fantastic mind on this mare - and she's being ridden in a french link snaffle.



ROFL, what a novel eh? So I suppose I can sum it up like this:

1. Do you think a mating between Zierra and *Empres would be a good idea? Why or why not?

2. If not, do you think I should examine purchasing a Hedgeville Farm horse?

3. If not, should I examine purchasing a horse out of province?

4. If not, should I examine potentially purchasing a mare worthy of *Empres? (again, this would require out of province and I DO have a budget here, I can handle several thousand on stud fees and vet bils, however getting past 5K is pushing it).

I am VERY partial to having a foal, having raised Zierra from birth. Training Jynx has been fun, but I much prefer getting ahold of them before anyone else does.

Thanks a TON for any input!!
 
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#32 ·
As a note, her dam had absolutely unbelievable feet. Unfortunately, I am unsure what her sires were like which is another factor against breeding her - not fully knowing her pedigree. Her dam however had immaculate black horn feet that never chipped or cracked, and she was ridden virtually ONLY down gravel roads. I can count on one hand the number of times the farrier had to take nippers to her, she wore them down more perfect then I've ever seen a horse do - he'd take a rasp and smooth her out and re-balance the foot, but even he couldn't believe what perfect feet she had.

This definitely won't be a hasty decision. It very much looks like we'd be waiting until next spring anyway at this point. Jynx is being sold regardless this spring, so I have a year to decide. Due to recent financial issues, it's looking doubtful if she'll be bred but I can always hope right? I am looking very hard at selling Jynx, paying off my truck, buying my own place within the next 2 years and at that point, I may seriously consider saving to look at serious endurance prospects out of province, or potentially even picking up a broodmare specifically for the purpose of breeding to *Empres.

Thanks for all the insight guys, I'll definitely be thinking long and hard about what I'll do!
 
#34 ·
Haha, I know, I actually went back to Hedgeville Farms and took a gander at some of their riding horses for sale, and they've gotten some decent registered stock already broke and in some cases competing for sale for a few thousand dollars. As much fun as babies are, I also have to SERIOUSLY question how much I want to wait 5 years to ride the foal, and that's only if I breed her this spring!

Definitely a lot to think about.

 
#36 ·
No, probably not, but I think people tend to severely underestimate our equestrian population. We only have a handful of farriers at best with any sort of reputation, and they stick to the expensive show horses so it's impossible to get them out. So no, when I say "barefoot", I mean without shoes, not an ACTUAL "barefoot" trimmer. I'm lucky our farrier even went to SCHOOL never mind specialize in something. :roll: The one farrier we DID have out once who did actual "barefoot" trimming lamed up every last one of our horses for 2 weeks.


 
#37 ·
I'd say go ahead and breed her in my opinion. If you can provide proper care and can afford to breed a horse, then that would be good. Otherwise you could by a horse from the United States, if that's an option. Around here all that is for sale is pretty much Arabians. I don't know lines very well, but there are completely registered foals and mares selling for only $400-$800. (I live in Wisconsin.) It might be costly to drive that much, and to cross a country border with an animal. I do know there are some people who will transport horses, but for a fee. (I'm sure it would be very expensive if you could find someone to drive the horse.)

But I think you have a great mare already, and if you could find a stud than I don't see any problem with it. It's just when for example, someone wants a Quarter horse, and there are quarter horses EVERYWHERE that they could just buy, but decide to breed their backyard bred QH because they wan't a horse "just like theirs." But with you, there isn't any Arabs that you want around you, and you have a mare that sounds like a good horse and looks of a very nice quality.
 
#38 ·
I think you should breed her, since you want the offspring, and you can see both the virtues and vices of your mare. I don't say that last part lightly. In my neck of the woods, most people cannot see past their love for their horse and actually see them. I really want to applaud you for saying "she's not perfect." I agree with what gottatrot said and ButtInTheDirt said, so I won't waste time resaying it! :)

As to the feet thing (though I hesitate to get into this here on a breed thread...), I think you are making the correct choices for your horses feet. Only you know the farriers available in your area, and no amount of other people telling you how it should be done is going to change what is. I have 4 horses (between my mom and me) and 4 boarders (that we make most decisions for) and just about each one has a different shoe/trim job...we have some barefoot, some half shod, a couple with natural balance shoes, and standard full shoes. My mare (that I ride the most) is barefoot for 3/4 of the year (with boots to wear if she seems to get sore) and shoes on during the summer (when I ride ALOT and wear her feet down to nothing).
 
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