Picking a HUS AQHA stud to breed with an HYPP N/H mare - Page 9 - The Horse Forum

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post #81 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post

As to HERDA again it has weight and it is added into the breeding equation. Since it is very very much different they HyPP to me it carries A LOT less weight when I am looking into breeding.
You and I agree on most things, but as you know we disagree on this issue, and have for many years.

It's OK to disagree, and I respect your opinion. However where you justify the use of breeding a HERDA carrier based upon its performance and your knowledge not to breed it to another carrier, I view things differently. As long as the playing field is level, competition is fair, and based upon the best horse, best, training, and best riding. If there were no HERDA carriers competing, the playing field would still be level. Same with HYPP and halter. Same with racing Thoroughbreds. Competition should be based upon equal footing and a level playing field - not upon whether a particular horse is bulked up or performs better due to a negative genetic issue that can be passed on.

If no HERDA carriers were permitted to compete, the competitive nature of the discipline would not be compromised - there would just be a particular class of horses eliminated. Same with halter - if HYPP H/H and N/H horses were not permitted to compete, the discipline would be just as competitive - moreso, actually. Same with Thoroughbreds. If the poorly bred horses with unsound feet, joints, and bones, were not permitted to compete, breeding practices would change but races would be just as exciting, albeit perhaps a couple tenths of a second slower.

Competition should be a judge of horse, trainer, and rider. The best horse trained the best and ridden the best, should win. If that horse has a genetic fault, it cannot by definition, at least in my opinion, be the best horse.

Just a different way of looking at things...
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Last edited by Faceman; 11-29-2011 at 12:32 PM.
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post #82 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 12:31 PM
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Sure seems like considering all the fingers are being pointed continuously (and a lot by you farmpony) at the AQHA and only the AQHA.
Not really. You'll notice I posted the rule changes and the guidelines, plus I notated rules that were supposed to be coming into effect and I posted the link that AQHA provided educating people of HYPP.

I own 2 HYPP/NN horses. I ride and show in the AQHA circuit. I am a happy proud member of the AQHA. You are angering me with your accusations that I would point fingers at an association that I love. Read the posts again please.

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post #83 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
I personally would not breed a HyPP pos horse but I can see why others might want too.
Why others may want? Not a debate here, but I'm really curious what would be pros of doing it. Personally I'd be afraid to even own one, much less to breed one. Just too much of risk (plus watching those attacks even on video is simply hard for me).

Whether you register or not the grade horse still may have it. You can't go around it really.

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post #84 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 12:55 PM
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Some people specifically breed for HYPP positive horses. There's a belief that it leads to a more heavily-muscled animal, ideal for halter competition. There may actually be some truth to that--watch the videos posted on the first page. With HYPP attacks (and there may be far more frequent "subclinical" attacks that just aren't visible to the human eye), the muscles are frequently twitching, thus building mass.
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post #85 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 12:58 PM
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bubba, yes, I've heard about it, but I couldn't find any scientific prove (or real research) while back when I decided to read a little about the issue that positive will make them look better. Oh, well, if that's the reason then you can't fix it I guess...

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post #86 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 01:00 PM
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But again, there are plenty of bulky N/N horses. This guy is big enough, doncha think?

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post #87 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 01:02 PM
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Not in one of the following quotes do you bring up any registry but the AQHA.

ETA - BTW these are the posts that come up under your name when searching posters in this thread. So no, you have not even said a word about it being anyone else's responsibility besides the AQHA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
To the OP. It sounds like you are fairly ignorant regarding the disease itself. It's not really that surprising because unless you are heavily into the QH world, it's not as common information as the folks on this forum are making it out to be. Before I bred my mare who is HYPP/NN, I knew very little about the "Impressive Syndrome", which is the name I knew it by. I knew that it caused temporarily paralysis but not much more.

This is an older website but I feel it will be helpful to you: Index

And of course the AQHA site with information:

AQHA - HYPP INFORMATION

Hope that helps you.
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Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
Are you being obnoxious with your last statement? I'm not sure I understand the meaning behind it.

If I remember right, this was the first rule change regarding HYPP:

Foals born in 1998 and later and tracing to IMPRESSIVE will have a statement placed on their Certificates of Registration that recommends testing for the condition unless test results indicating the foal is negative (N/N) are on file with AQHA.


The next one came much later and is this:

Beginning with the 2007 foals, all Impressive progeny are required to be parentage verified and HYPP tested subject to the conditions listed in rule 205. Any that test H/H will not be eligible for registration.


They HYPP portion of Rule 205:

[c] Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis (HYPP) - designation effective for foals born on or after January 1, 1998. A muscular disease caused by a hereditary genetic defect that leads to uncontrolled muscle twitching or profound muscle weakness,
and in severe cases, may lead to collapse and/or death. According to research, this condition exists in certain descendants of the the stallion Impressive, AQHA registration number 0767246.



[1]
The following notification shall be placed on registration certificates of foals descending from the stallion Impressive or any other bloodline determined to carry the HYPP gene:


“This horse has an ancestor known to carry HYPP, designated under AQHA rules as a genetic defect. AQHA recommends testing to confirm presence or absence of this gene.”



When the parent(s) tracing from the HYPP line has tested negative for HYPP with an appropriate designation appearing on their registration certificate, the above notification is not required, and will, instead, be substituted by the designation “N/N”; or, after testing negative for the
gene, the notification may be substituted by the designation “N/N” upon request of the owner at his or her expense.



[2] Mandatory testing for HYPP. At such time as AQHA requires mandatory parentage verification of any foals to be registered in either the numbered or appendix registry,
(see 202 (i)) any foal tracing to bloodlines known to carry the HYPP gene shall be tested for HYPP at the time the genetic testing for parentage is performed. The results will
be designated on the registration certificate in lieu of the above notification. Such testing will not be necessary if the foal’s closest ancestors, tracing to the HYPP line, have
been tested negative and designated on their registration certificates, these foals will automatically be designated “N/N” on their registration certificate.



Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis (HYPP) is an inherited disease that leads to uncontrolled muscle twitching or profound muscle weakness, and in severe
cases, may lead to collapse and/or death. HYPP is listed as a genetic defect in AQHA’s rules, along with Parrot Mouth and Cryptorchid conditions.



To date, HYPP only has been traced to descendants of IMPRESSIVE, #0767246. Having negative (N/N) results on file may prevent a horse’s offspring from being tested. Foals born in 1998 and later and tracing to
IMPRESSIVE will have a statement placed on their Certificates of Registration that recommends testing for the condition unless test results indicating the foal is negative (N/N) are on file with AQHA. AQHA will test any foals who are required to be parentage verified and who trace to IMPRESSIVE for HYPP prior to them being registered. This testing
will be performed with the same DNA sample submitted to the laboratory for parentage verification.



AQHA will accept HYPP test results only if performed
through a licensed laboratory. Beginning with the 2007 foals, all Impressive progeny are required to be parentage verified and HYPP tested subject to the conditions listed in rule 205. Any that test H/H will not be eligible for registration. Possible results of HYPP testing are N/N, N/H and H/H.



HYPP is inherited as a dominant trait, which means a heterozygous (N/H) stallion or mare bred to a normal (N/N) horse will result in approximately half of the offspring being affected and half being normal. The rare homozygote (H/H) usually is severely affected with the disease and will pass the gene to its offspring 100 percent of the time.



HYPP can be treated through diet and medication in most cases.



AQHA Testing Kits can be ordered for $35.



I did read somewhere that AQHA is coming up with yet another rule which will only allow one to register an N/H mare if she has been fixed and will not be bred. They also will only register N/H geldings and I'm not sure when this rule takes effect but I think when that happens folks will stop breeding when there is a potential to end up with an N/H foal because it won't be feasable for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
Truthfully I wasn't sure if you were making fun or if you were being serious. I've removed quite a few popcorn posts today and I geuss I'm testy. I apologize for that. As for my response, I think that is what you were asking, what the papers would show. If your horse has absolutely NO Impressive in its bloodlines then HYPP is not an issue for you but there are other things such as tying up syndrome (which I am not as familiar with but I think can be found in TB bloodlines). Or it could just be that she gets very nervous. My QH, who is NN does shake really bad when he's nervous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
I was trying to find a stud that was born after 1998 that is N/H and I can pull the papers to get the verbage. I just need a name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
Her horse does not have any Impressive lines so no need to test. Some horses do just shake all over when they are nervous. It very well could just be nerves. Or it could be something.... hard to tell.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
See. Now you done made me mad. I want to make a rotten statement like *head desk* or maybe call you a big meanie poopoo head? Luckily I know you well enough that I won't take your comment personally... But could I just throw one cup of soda at you?

I wasn't saying people SHOULDN'T know about it. I'm saying they DON'T. Maybe in your area people are knowledgeable in it but going off the amount of threads we get on this forum alone and the types of comments that are posted. I feel confident that people don't know nearly enough about it.

One of my biggest complaints about these local hunt facilities in this are ais that they teach the kids how to look pretty on a horse and that's about it. They don't teach them feed and nutrition or health. I think part of why people take lessons, especially people that don't own, is so that they can learn enough to someday enter the horse world as an owner. I knew about "Impressive Syndrome" growing up and I knew that it caused temporarily paralysis. I didn't know how the horse got it or how to control it or what the causes were. And truthfully, if you walked up to random horse people, I'm not sure they could give good answers. Especially if they aren't going to breed. And many many many horse owners... arent' going to breed.

OK, I don't feel the need to throw a soda at you anymore but I might steal your lunch when you aren't looking....
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
Faceman... I agree that the registries need to educate, which AQHA has put out multiple articles regarding HYPP and HERDA but the thing is... If you buy a registered horse but you show hunt or dressage or maybe don't even show at all, chances are you aren't a member of AQHA (only long enough to change the ownership on your papers) and you don't really follow it.

So the organization is limited to how many people it can inform.... Know what I mean?
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post #88 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 01:06 PM
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Not in one of the following quotes do you bring up any registry but the AQHA.
and your point is? I was actually responding to questions about AQHA and what is listed on papers and what horses can be registered and what the papers show if the horse is a descendent of Impressive. I really think you should start reading at page one and continue on until you get to the end.

Not only that but read each of my posts. Nowhere do I say anything negative at all about the AQHA. You are looking for something that just isn't there.

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post #89 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 01:11 PM
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Nice of you to assume that I haven't been following this thread.

I have read all of your posts and all of the other posts. YOUR posts keep pointing fingers at the AQHA and the AQHA alone IMPO. Which is WRONG. At this point in the game with HYPP it isn't solely up to the AQHA. ApHC, APHA and any other registry that has AQHA blood mixed in is just as responsible to inform people about HYPP as they are to to take steps to eradicate this gentic disease.
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post #90 of 119 Old 11-29-2011, 01:14 PM
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Folks, it's time to calm down.

Appy, I'd also bring either AQHA or APHA in the discussions, because I'm familiar with only those two (because that's what I own). I have no idea what other organizations are doing and what their rules are.

When there is a N/H or H/H horse there is only ONE party responsible - the breeder who let it happened (the only exception is when someone's stud jumped all fences and came to visit the mare without informing the mare's owner). Doesn't matter what organization he/she is affiliated with.

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