Please help me chose the stallion to breed my mare to - Page 11
 
 

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Please help me chose the stallion to breed my mare to

This is a discussion on Please help me chose the stallion to breed my mare to within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        04-13-2011, 08:23 PM
      #101
    Trained
    I wonder why you do not see many great NRHA Futurity Champions? Maybe that NCHA Futurity champion or even say an NRCHA Snaffle Bit Champion?

    Oh may even an NRHA Affiliate champion?
         
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        04-13-2011, 08:23 PM
      #102
    Foal
    I wouldn't say any horse is Amazing as a foal. Yes bloodlines make them appealing, but it all depends on the trainer/owner as to what they turn into. A grade horse can become a great horse even without great bloodlines. Now I'm not saying everyone should breed but I think that if you have the money, knowledge and the time to put into a foal then go for it.
         
        04-13-2011, 08:23 PM
      #103
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RodeoLoco    
    No I don't.
    So your willing to propetuate HERDA, OLWs, HYPP, etc., in your "breeding" stock becuase you don't test... Real responsible breeding there. Not only does the pedigree help track what a horse will (should) be good at, it helps let you know what diseases a horse is liable to have. Willy-nilly breeding of grade horses without genetic testing goes beyond just asinine and into obviously not caring.
         
        04-13-2011, 08:34 PM
      #104
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by amschrader87    
    I wouldn't say any horse is Amazing as a foal. Yes bloodlines make them appealing, but it all depends on the trainer/owner as to what they turn into. A grade horse can become a great horse even without great bloodlines. Now I'm not saying everyone should breed but I think that if you have the money, knowledge and the time to put into a foal then go for it.

    If it was only about the owners and trainers and money then why do you not see more grade horses winning the big money at the different futuritys? Why when you call trainers like Shawn Flarada and others at that level one of the first questions they ask is how your horse is bred?

    Grade horses have their place. Some are grade for many reasons. Lost papers parents where not DNA typed and could not be registered and so on. However they are still grade. The breeding needs to stop there.
         
        04-13-2011, 08:48 PM
      #105
    Weanling
    I disagree that foals are not born "amazing". Experienced breeders can definitely see the potential in newborn foals, and therefore they are worth more from day 1. Whether or not that horse eventually turns into a winner is, like has been said, dependent on a lot of other factors, but it all starts when the horse is a foal. Pedigrees and lineage help tremendously when we are trying to breed good horses.
         
        04-13-2011, 08:55 PM
      #106
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    If it was only about the owners and trainers and money then why do you not see more grade horses winning the big money at the different futuritys? Why when you call trainers like Shawn Flarada and others at that level one of the first questions they ask is how your horse is bred?

    Grade horses have their place. Some are grade for many reasons. Lost papers parents where not DNA typed and could not be registered and so on. However they are still grade. The breeding needs to stop there.
    I would just like to point out that all "purebreds" were grades in the beginning. You can't get one breed without the other in most instances. And in some instances, having both breeds makes a grade even better than the parents...take it from me: Hogs in America that you eat are never purebred...why? You get better meat by crossing two breeds to get better traits and it's the same with cattle. And one of the big reasons grades aren't in furturities is because you have to be nominated when you register, which grades cannot do. Also, just because a horse is well bred and doesn't have papers doesn't make it grade...if you have a say...i don't know...the son of Seattle Slew and you lose the horse's papers, that doesn't mean he's not the son of Seattle Slew.
         
        04-13-2011, 09:02 PM
      #107
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SAsamone    
    I would just like to point out that all "purebreds" were grades in the beginning.

    Yes as some point newer breed started by crossing different horses or dogs or what ever. However records where kept. Which give them a way to prove pedigrees. Why if it was not important did they keep those records??


    You can't get one breed without the other in most instances. And in some instances, having both breeds makes a grade even better than the parents...take it from me: Hogs in America that you eat are never purebred...why? You get better meat by crossing two breeds to get better traits and it's the same with cattle.

    Those are not grades those are cross breeds and it is only done for one generation. They tend to go back to registered pure bred parents every time.

    And one of the big reasons grades aren't in furturities is because you have to be nominated when you register, which grades cannot do. Also, just because a horse is well bred and doesn't have papers doesn't make it grade...if you have a say...i don't know...the son of Seattle Slew and you lose the horse's papers, that doesn't mean he's not the son of Seattle Slew.
    There is no registration requirement to show in any class in NRHA NRCHA NCHA. So yes even grade horses can show in the futurities.

    So again I ask why do you not see grade horses in the futurities or even at the top of the affiliate year end awards.
         
        04-13-2011, 09:03 PM
      #108
    Showing
    SAsamone - they're NO LONGER grades, that's the point. There are so many recognised breeds that excel in such a wide variety of disciplines that the argument "they were all grade in the beginning" is kind of null.
    Also, there is VALUE in purebred horses. Much more value in your average registered horse than your average grade horse. People pay for that value, and the value is evident. People don't care if the meat on their plate is purebred or not.
    Papers DO make a difference. If a horse doesn't have papers, it is grade. You can argue against that till you're blue in the face, but it won't change a thing. The horse is grade until papered; and if those papers are lost and unreproducable, the horse is grade.
         
        04-13-2011, 09:05 PM
      #109
    Started
    OK so one more post here as I tend to repeat myself... old age I think :)

    I have a grade horse, he is nice to look at and as well trained as some of my friends papered horses and not as well trained as some. My daughter's AQHA, Sheldon is one of them whose training makes my horse look very green. While I could expect to sell my grade for about $1000 in this economy, I could expect to sell my daughter's more highly trained registered horse for about $4500

    I am not a breeder, not of dogs, cats, horses ...nothing! I think only the best of the best should be bred. Not me standing a horse like my gelding at stud because he is 16.1, a tobiano, has a nice temperament, is ok with his confirmation. Not breeding my mare because I love her and she is special so I would love a baby just like her....

    I am more than happy to take the barrel bred horse that didn't have the heart to run barrels and turn him into a nice wp horse that wins in local shows. I am more than happy to ride my good looking and amazing (to me) grade horse up and down the trails.

    I am more than happy to say, if you don't know what you are breeding for and why, you have no business breeding. There are too many registered babies that need homes to even think about breeding a grade horse. The market stinks... lifetime horses aren't always able to be that. Things in life happen and destroy our fairy tale worlds and we can't raise that foal till it dies... responsible breeding and training will give a horse the best chance of getting a great home if something happens and he needs to move from our lives....

    Just because the parts are there doesn't make it necessary to put them to use...RESPONSIBLE BREEDING IS THE ONLY ANSWER
         
        04-13-2011, 09:11 PM
      #110
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NdAppy    
    So your willing to propetuate HERDA, OLWs, HYPP, etc., in your "breeding" stock becuase you don't test... Real responsible breeding there. Not only does the pedigree help track what a horse will (should) be good at, it helps let you know what diseases a horse is liable to have. Willy-nilly breeding of grade horses without genetic testing goes beyond just asinine and into obviously not caring.
    Lovely. Quality breeder.... sigh. SO easy to prevent such diseases from being perpetuated. SO so so very easy... it's too bad some ruin it for the bunch.
         

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