Is this possible?
 
 

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Is this possible?

This is a discussion on Is this possible? within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • +punnet square for palimino horses

 
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    08-18-2010, 10:43 PM
  #1
Foal
Is this possible?

I just purchased a very light bay (in the photos I thought she was a buckskin) mustang mare, & when I proposed the idea of breeding her a couple years down the road to my parents, they were open to it. Which got me wondering...;) I adore Cremellos, so of course I would love to get one out of her. I've looked up stuff related to that on google, but I can't find a straight out yes or no on whether or not a Cremello would be possible. Does anyone know?
     
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    08-19-2010, 12:48 AM
  #2
Green Broke
The first question you ask should not be, "Can I get a [fill in the blank with an oh-so-pweetty color] out of this mare?" The first thing that should cross your mind is, "Can I get a sound, sane, conformationally correct foal out of this mare? Will the foal be worth anything if I have to sell it, or will it be kill-buyer potential? Is a pretty foal worth risking my mare's life? Is the mare so perfect that I would want another just like her?" You just got this mare. I am aware that you said a few years down the road, but that is beside the point. It shouldn't be crossing your mind at all at this point. I am honestly not trying to sound snooty, I just have a SERIOUS issue with people who breed for color, cute factory, blah blah blah. I don't have an answer to your question, but there are some very knowledgable people in the genetics department who could help you further. The whole thing with agouti and genes.... It's way over my head. Good luck.
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    08-19-2010, 12:55 AM
  #3
Banned
No. Cremello is recessive to palomino, which is recessive to chestnut. I would love to draw the Punnet square for you, but I can't. If you breed two palominos, I believe you have a one in four chance of producing a cremello. (There are better color experts on this forum than me; so someone else please jump in if I've got that wrong.) I do not believe it's possible for a bay horse to carry the cremello gene; and you must have both parents carrying the gene to produce the cremello.
     
    08-19-2010, 05:25 AM
  #4
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by maura    
No. Cremello is recessive to palomino, which is recessive to chestnut. I would love to draw the Punnet square for you, but I can't. If you breed two palominos, I believe you have a one in four chance of producing a cremello. (There are better color experts on this forum than me; so someone else please jump in if I've got that wrong.) I do not believe it's possible for a bay horse to carry the cremello gene; and you must have both parents carrying the gene to produce the cremello.
Close Maura :)

Cremello is a double cream gene. For a horse to carry the cream gene, they have to express it. So the horse has to be buckskin or palomino (with variations of said colours also included in this) in order to pass a cream gene to it's foal. To be cremello, a horse needs 2 of these cream genes, one from the sire and one from the dam.

So no, as Maura said, your horse cannot breed a cremello.
     
    08-19-2010, 08:00 AM
  #5
Banned
Thanks for the correction, chillaa. Didn't know that a bucksin could carry the cream gene.
     
    08-19-2010, 08:18 AM
  #6
Trained
Yup :)

The cream gene is an incomplete dominant. This means that no cream = full colour, one gene = diluted colour, two genes = full cream colour.

Buckskin is a bay horse with one cream gene present :)
     
    08-19-2010, 04:48 PM
  #7
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny    
The first question you ask should not be, "Can I get a [fill in the blank with an oh-so-pweetty color] out of this mare?" The first thing that should cross your mind is, "Can I get a sound, sane, conformationally correct foal out of this mare? Will the foal be worth anything if I have to sell it, or will it be kill-buyer potential? Is a pretty foal worth risking my mare's life? Is the mare so perfect that I would want another just like her?" You just got this mare. I am aware that you said a few years down the road, but that is beside the point. It shouldn't be crossing your mind at all at this point. I am honestly not trying to sound snooty, I just have a SERIOUS issue with people who breed for color, cute factory, blah blah blah. I don't have an answer to your question, but there are some very knowledgable people in the genetics department who could help you further. The whole thing with agouti and genes.... It's way over my head. Good luck.
Posted via Mobile Device
Of course all of that has crossed my mind. She's already had a foal before, and everything went perfectly well. I've seen the foal in person, he is beautiful & healthy. I would NEVER breed her to any old stud who could get the job done. I would also NEVER in a million years consider any horse to be "kill-buyer potential?" I was only asking whether or not the color I prefer would be possible. & thank you for your well wishings
     
    08-19-2010, 04:52 PM
  #8
Super Moderator
So you might could breed to a palomino and get a buckskin right?
     
    08-19-2010, 05:13 PM
  #9
Foal
If I bred her to a Cremello, I would get either a Buckskin or a Palimino, but most likely a buckskin:) but where I live.. it would be nearly impossible to find a Cremello stud, & then if I ever did find one he would have to have the right conformation,personality, etc.. but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it ;)
     
    08-19-2010, 09:34 PM
  #10
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84    
so you might could breed to a palomino and get a buckskin right?
Yup, entirely possible and in fact quite likely.
     

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