Presenting: Gold N PsynnPsaytion- born 4-11-12 - Page 56
   

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Presenting: Gold N PsynnPsaytion- born 4-11-12

This is a discussion on Presenting: Gold N PsynnPsaytion- born 4-11-12 within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        09-19-2013, 03:02 PM
      #551
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Druydess    
    Your horses are a great example of classic, consistent breeding.
    I think the people who are so against inbreeding really don't understand it. Often, they ascribe human morality to a breeding practice and are misinformed about the reality of genetics and how genetics really work. Given the right individuals, I will certainly line-breed.
    The other issue is that some people often confuse classic Arabian type/standard with today's fads. Tried and true still works, no matter what's "popular."

    It is a scientifically proven fact (University of Missouri and US Library of Medicine) that inbreeding, producing a foal from a mix of the 2 closest generations, produces a dramatically higher percentage of physically and/or mentally deformed off-spring.

    It's not about being a "naysayer" it's about being a responsible breeder. The amount of "crap" that is present in the market today as a result of inbreeding is a perfect example if why it is POOR breeding practice to inbreed. Sure you might get lucky once or twice, but studies prove that will not happen most of the time.
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        09-19-2013, 10:23 PM
      #552
    Green Broke
    That's exactly why one breeds selectively - and for desired traits - as opposed to defects. It happens more than once or twice that the desired result is achieved. The Bedouins certainly mastered it well enough. Out-crossing is what introduced the majority of defects.

    Inbreeding, Linebreeding and Crossbreeding

    http://tylerligon.tripod.com/sitebui...anbreeding.pdf
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        09-20-2013, 01:52 AM
      #553
    Trained
    Busy smurf you are misinformed if you think inbreeding is a bad practice.
    Too many people have done it successfully and still do it with great results.
    The article Druydess posted proves how valuable a practice it is and every livestock producer I know uses the practice.
    You must breed correct animals with positive traits.
    You want your mare to pass on some of her great qualities then breed her to one of her close relatives with the same positive traits.
    You are more certain to get the results you desire than breeding to an unrelated individual. That is an undisputed fact. Shalom
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        09-20-2013, 10:28 AM
      #554
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    Busy smurf you are misinformed if you think inbreeding is a bad practice.
    Too many people have done it successfully and still do it with great results.
    The article Druydess posted proves how valuable a practice it is and every livestock producer I know uses the practice.
    You must breed correct animals with positive traits.
    You want your mare to pass on some of her great qualities then breed her to one of her close relatives with the same positive traits.
    You are more certain to get the results you desire than breeding to an unrelated individual. That is an undisputed fact. It is also an undisputed fact you are "playing with fire". How do you think all of the mutations that have caused so many problems in today's breeds got here in the first place?? We will NEVER be able to eliminate those mutations if close in-breeding is allowed to continue. I don't care how pretty your horse is, if it's going to be dead lame or have to be put to sleep because the breeder was so focused on looks to pay attention to substance, that breeder is irresponsible.Shalom
    I have to disagree about being misinformed. Unless of course the scientifically proven studies and articles are BS. I don't ignore the fact, nor discredit the idea that LINE BREEDING does produce desired traits. BUT, it also produces undesired traits as much, if not more. It is a PROVEN FACT, that for every foal that you get your desired traits, you are going to get more foals with undesirable issues. Does Russian Roulette ring a bell?

    Take a look an objective look at the vast majority of horses, both line & in-bred. The undesirable traits are more common than the desirable ones. Be it in conformation, personality, or health flaws. Granted, some of the undesirable traits have been weeded out with line breeding, but not all.

    There has been the argument that during the "birth" or "rebirth" of a breed, in breeding occurs. That is true, and a necessary evil. However, at some point when the population numbers are stronger, in-breeding turns into line breeding. And so on. Natural selection eliminates the undesired offspring early on, and each generation with the desirable traits gets farther & farther from the original pair.

    If that is misinformation, than you might want to try & find a way to change science rather than a few potential buyers.
         
        09-20-2013, 10:34 AM
      #555
    Green Broke
    Not if you choose candidates correctly.

    Quote from the article mentioned above:

    Fortunately for us, there are still a small
    Percentage of Arabians that contain only
    The blood of the original Bedouin desert
    Steeds. Again, I will use Sheykh Obeyds
    As my example but there are other
    Subgroups that have remained pure. SO
    Arabians came from the Bedouins out of
    The desert and have been bred on without
    The infusion of outside or impure blood.
    This allows us a resource that continues to
    Be void of most undesirables or recessive
    Disorders. To this day there are no known
    Cases of an SO Arabian dying of SCID or
    LFS. Since there is little chance of these
    Traits showing up, we can utilize
    Linebreeding and Inbreeding to their
    Utmost potential to produce extremely
    Prepotent individuals who will produce
    Consistently for us. Consistency is one of
    The hardest things to come by when
    Breeding horses and it is the hallmark of
    All great Arabian breeding programs.

    There's a great debate going on HF about this topic. Chiilaa's post in particular is very informative. That's the place to debate inbreeding: Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons
         
        09-20-2013, 11:20 AM
      #556
    Trained
    Busysmurf I do not breed for pretty heads and I breed with the intention of retaining any females, so potential buyer are not what I aim for.
    The facts prove breeding two closely related , Correct, individauls is not playing with fire.
    You are the one who needs to be objective.
    I would not breed any horses with a glaring major fault in their conformation and would not breed two closely related individuals with the same minor faults. That would be playing russian roulette. Shalom
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        09-27-2013, 09:37 AM
      #557
    Green Broke
    Some pics of Psynny having a blast:







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        09-27-2013, 07:29 PM
      #558
    Green Broke
    I just love the way this boy can move...





    He doesn't look too shabby just standing around either..
    I know-- not standing square, but who cares..LOL



    17 months and growing!
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        09-27-2013, 07:42 PM
      #559
    Green Broke
    Awesome pics Dru, Psynny is a stunning boy for sure!! I love all that chrome and what a deep rich color he is!
         
        09-27-2013, 09:52 PM
      #560
    Trained
    Look at those legs! My goodness!

    *drool*
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