Presenting: Gold N PsynnPsaytion- born 4-11-12 - Page 56 - The Horse Forum
 648Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #551 of 565 Old 09-19-2013, 04:02 PM
Started
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: In my own little world;)
Posts: 1,511
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Druydess View Post
Your horses are a great example of classic, consistent breeding.
I think the people who are so against inbreeding really don't understand it. Often, they ascribe human morality to a breeding practice and are misinformed about the reality of genetics and how genetics really work. Given the right individuals, I will certainly line-breed.
The other issue is that some people often confuse classic Arabian type/standard with today's fads. Tried and true still works, no matter what's "popular."

It is a scientifically proven fact (University of Missouri and US Library of Medicine) that inbreeding, producing a foal from a mix of the 2 closest generations, produces a dramatically higher percentage of physically and/or mentally deformed off-spring.

It's not about being a "naysayer" it's about being a responsible breeder. The amount of "crap" that is present in the market today as a result of inbreeding is a perfect example if why it is POOR breeding practice to inbreed. Sure you might get lucky once or twice, but studies prove that will not happen most of the time.
NdAppy, Speed Racer and MsBHavin like this.

"Just because I don't do things your way, doesn't mean I don't have a clue"
busysmurf is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #552 of 565 Old 09-19-2013, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,827
• Horses: 8
That's exactly why one breeds selectively - and for desired traits - as opposed to defects. It happens more than once or twice that the desired result is achieved. The Bedouins certainly mastered it well enough. Out-crossing is what introduced the majority of defects.

Inbreeding, Linebreeding and Crossbreeding

http://tylerligon.tripod.com/sitebui...anbreeding.pdf
dbarabians and HorseLovinLady like this.

For those who don't like me-- it's mind over matter; I don't mind - - and you don't matter.
www.obsidianarabians.com
Druydess is offline  
post #553 of 565 Old 09-20-2013, 02:52 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,919
• Horses: 0
Busy smurf you are misinformed if you think inbreeding is a bad practice.
Too many people have done it successfully and still do it with great results.
The article Druydess posted proves how valuable a practice it is and every livestock producer I know uses the practice.
You must breed correct animals with positive traits.
You want your mare to pass on some of her great qualities then breed her to one of her close relatives with the same positive traits.
You are more certain to get the results you desire than breeding to an unrelated individual. That is an undisputed fact. Shalom
Druydess and HorseLovinLady like this.
dbarabians is offline  
post #554 of 565 Old 09-20-2013, 11:28 AM
Started
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: In my own little world;)
Posts: 1,511
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians View Post
Busy smurf you are misinformed if you think inbreeding is a bad practice.
Too many people have done it successfully and still do it with great results.
The article Druydess posted proves how valuable a practice it is and every livestock producer I know uses the practice.
You must breed correct animals with positive traits.
You want your mare to pass on some of her great qualities then breed her to one of her close relatives with the same positive traits.
You are more certain to get the results you desire than breeding to an unrelated individual. That is an undisputed fact. It is also an undisputed fact you are "playing with fire". How do you think all of the mutations that have caused so many problems in today's breeds got here in the first place?? We will NEVER be able to eliminate those mutations if close in-breeding is allowed to continue. I don't care how pretty your horse is, if it's going to be dead lame or have to be put to sleep because the breeder was so focused on looks to pay attention to substance, that breeder is irresponsible.Shalom
I have to disagree about being misinformed. Unless of course the scientifically proven studies and articles are BS. I don't ignore the fact, nor discredit the idea that LINE BREEDING does produce desired traits. BUT, it also produces undesired traits as much, if not more. It is a PROVEN FACT, that for every foal that you get your desired traits, you are going to get more foals with undesirable issues. Does Russian Roulette ring a bell?

Take a look an objective look at the vast majority of horses, both line & in-bred. The undesirable traits are more common than the desirable ones. Be it in conformation, personality, or health flaws. Granted, some of the undesirable traits have been weeded out with line breeding, but not all.

There has been the argument that during the "birth" or "rebirth" of a breed, in breeding occurs. That is true, and a necessary evil. However, at some point when the population numbers are stronger, in-breeding turns into line breeding. And so on. Natural selection eliminates the undesired offspring early on, and each generation with the desirable traits gets farther & farther from the original pair.

If that is misinformation, than you might want to try & find a way to change science rather than a few potential buyers.

"Just because I don't do things your way, doesn't mean I don't have a clue"
busysmurf is offline  
post #555 of 565 Old 09-20-2013, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,827
• Horses: 8
Not if you choose candidates correctly.

Quote from the article mentioned above:

Fortunately for us, there are still a small
percentage of Arabians that contain only
the blood of the original Bedouin desert
steeds. Again, I will use Sheykh Obeyds
as my example but there are other
subgroups that have remained pure. SO
Arabians came from the Bedouins out of
the desert and have been bred on without
the infusion of outside or impure blood.
This allows us a resource that continues to
be void of most undesirables or recessive
disorders. To this day there are no known
cases of an SO Arabian dying of SCID or
LFS. Since there is little chance of these
traits showing up, we can utilize
Linebreeding and Inbreeding to their
utmost potential to produce extremely
prepotent individuals who will produce
consistently for us. Consistency is one of
the hardest things to come by when
breeding horses and it is the hallmark of
all great Arabian breeding programs.

There's a great debate going on HF about this topic. Chiilaa's post in particular is very informative. That's the place to debate inbreeding: Line-breeding and in-breeding thoughts & reasons

For those who don't like me-- it's mind over matter; I don't mind - - and you don't matter.
www.obsidianarabians.com
Druydess is offline  
post #556 of 565 Old 09-20-2013, 12:20 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,919
• Horses: 0
Busysmurf I do not breed for pretty heads and I breed with the intention of retaining any females, so potential buyer are not what I aim for.
The facts prove breeding two closely related , Correct, individauls is not playing with fire.
You are the one who needs to be objective.
I would not breed any horses with a glaring major fault in their conformation and would not breed two closely related individuals with the same minor faults. That would be playing russian roulette. Shalom
Druydess likes this.
dbarabians is offline  
post #557 of 565 Old 09-27-2013, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,827
• Horses: 8
Some pics of Psynny having a blast:







Celeste and HorseLovinLady like this.

For those who don't like me-- it's mind over matter; I don't mind - - and you don't matter.
www.obsidianarabians.com
Druydess is offline  
post #558 of 565 Old 09-27-2013, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,827
• Horses: 8
I just love the way this boy can move...





He doesn't look too shabby just standing around either..
I know-- not standing square, but who cares..LOL



17 months and growing!
Celeste and HorseLovinLady like this.

For those who don't like me-- it's mind over matter; I don't mind - - and you don't matter.
www.obsidianarabians.com

Last edited by Druydess; 09-27-2013 at 08:37 PM.
Druydess is offline  
post #559 of 565 Old 09-27-2013, 08:42 PM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 4,495
• Horses: 0
Awesome pics Dru, Psynny is a stunning boy for sure!! I love all that chrome and what a deep rich color he is!

Being horseless is the pits!!
HorseLovinLady is offline  
post #560 of 565 Old 09-27-2013, 10:52 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,772
• Horses: 2
Look at those legs! My goodness!

*drool*
Posted via Mobile Device
CLaPorte432 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Presenting and selling a horse! DuffyDuck Horse Talk 19 01-25-2012 05:15 PM
Presenting...My Girl India :) kailiejaykiss Horse Pictures 10 01-20-2012 06:35 PM
Guaranteed Gold / American Iris foal born! TrueColours Horse Breeding 15 02-23-2011 12:37 AM
Gorgeous deep gold '09 palomino TB filly by Guaranteed Gold! TrueColours Horses for Sale 8 12-14-2009 02:54 PM
Now Presenting, the Beautiful Melody! crossiii Horse Pictures 6 07-30-2008 11:57 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome