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Sold my old mare not knowing she was in foal, what is the proper etiquette for this?

This is a discussion on Sold my old mare not knowing she was in foal, what is the proper etiquette for this? within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        04-24-2012, 05:03 PM
      #51
    Foal
    This was a "handshake/friend" type of deal so my old mare could live out the rest of her delicate life in a wonderful place while bringing smiles to my friends little kids. So I didn't feel right asking anything in return, plus, this little foal was a surprise to us all. For sure wouldn’t want to ask them to pay for my stud horse paperwork. That’s kind of what I was referring to when I commented about expecting a stud fee. I guess what I should have said was I would have just appreciated an offer of some sort to help out, simply because I felt I was giving them a good deal. But I see now legally that is wrong so glad I didn't. This is also a little of where my "dealing with friends" comment came from. Sort of like going into business with family or friends, it usually doesn't work out too well sometimes LOL. Always have something in writing.

    I’m not a horse trader nor do I breed and sell horses. But had I known my 19 year old mare was bred I would have never let her go to them until after it was born and we would have made arrangements for me to keep the foal. They know how much she and my now gelding meant to me. But tough luck for me, that is my loss.

    The mare has now passed away unfortunately. Some of what I didn't disclose because I didn’t feel it was relevant to my original post. However, maybe I should have included it and asked, given my situation, would you offer your friend the foal? What I should have asked along with, did I handle the situation correctly from the very beginning is, do I even have any right to a claim him now. But I see now I’m basically grasping at a loss cause and my apologies for not simply stating this first off, but I didn't want to go into all the drama of the situation.

    But since I’ve opened myself up to this I will continue on with the rest of the story. I didn’t include that I took the mare back when it was time for him to be weaned. She was then 20 and he was rearing up on her, being a colt and needing to be weaned. So in her best interest I offered to bring her back home for safe keeping. After all, they never rode her anymore. But I would have let them whenever they wanted to. But she later coliced and I took her to the vet. Her stomach was twisted where the only option was surgery and with her age and the fact that her chances of even surviving the surgery or even recovery, knowing she had lived a long, happy life I called my friend with the bad news and we reluctantly let her go. Given the fact she was my horse since she was 7 and that she was in my care when she coliced I took care of the $400 vet bill. In hind-sight, how were we to know what the future was to hold. We live and learn. I just try to treat others the way I would want to be treated. My initial forum comes now that he is almost 2 years old and they do nothing with him. Is it appropriate to even ask to have him back? I realize I would need to offer to purchase him and not expect they give him to me legally. I understand now that I don’t even have a reasonable argument in the situation. However, they tell me how much of a handful he is. I want to say, welcome to having horses! I’ve offered to take him and work with him but they like seeing him in their pasture and being able to feed and pet him. The perfect life I wanted for my old mare, yet here we are, she is gone and they have her yearling who needs attention they don't know how to give. But, I don’t want to continue to offer more to them unless ultimately I can end up with him now, so I’m not sure how to handle it but at least I know I handled it right from the start. I know it’s basically a lost cause at this point and something I need to move on from.

    After reading all this I feel I did the right thing, and I'm lucky it didn't go bad in the fact they could have came after me for selling them a bred mare after initially only wanting a companion horse. They never would have wanted a foal but when it was with her in the stall that morning they couldn’t have been happier. My issue was first to be sure I handled my responsibilities correctly after it was born. (Hence my reason for even posting on here). My difficulty with it was the principal of the situation. Even with it being a friendly transaction of my old mare that I owned the majority of her life who was bred to my horse when I owned her and a young horse going to waste….Regardless, I realize now it is my loss.
    Bottom line is, no matter if it’s a friend or a stranger and no matter how old or young, always write up an agreement and do a vet check, because you never know.
    I would have never imagined she would ever foal. All is well now and there are no hard feelings except they have a handful and I just would like to see it be trained and made into something and they have no desire to do so. After all, he had a great mother, and his sire, the youngster I own that is now a young gelding is the best horse on our place. But, you all have helped me realize that I can't worry about something that is not mine to worry about. And they know if they ever sell him I have first dibbs. Basically I've realized that's all I can hope for.

    Sorry for any confusion. My first time at posting in a forum and didn’t feel the need to go into unnecessary aspects when all I wanted to know is how to handle the situation of selling a mare while unknowingly being bred. After all, it’s an embarrassing situation as far as I’m concerned. But thanks everyone for your insight, it has helped me to know I’ve done all I can and just to let it go. Hopefully someone will learn from my mistakes, as I have.
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        04-24-2012, 06:20 PM
      #52
    Super Moderator
    Maybe, if you indicate how much you miss your old mare, and how the baby is the spittin' image of him, they might offer him to you. Especially if his behavior gets so ornery that they don't want him.
    I question how good of friends they are if they did not offer to help with the vet bills for the mare, at all. Your taking the mare to your property was temporary, wasn't it? And there was not negligence on your part that caused the colic?

    To me, if I were them, I would have offered to split the vet bill.
    Maybe you can find them a good babysitter horse, and offer it in trade for the weanling?
         
        04-24-2012, 06:47 PM
      #53
    Green Broke
    This was my thought too .. find them a good babysitter horse and offer to trade for him. Yes, you would be putting out more money, but I guess it all depends on how bad you want him ...

    It's a tough situation all the way around ...
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        04-24-2012, 06:57 PM
      #54
    Weanling
    I feel sorry for the ol' mare I'd be heartbroken if it was with me that long.
    Do you have a trainer that could work with you and the 2 yr.old?
    Not having done anything with the colt by this family he's probably spoiled.
    Good Luck
    They should consider getting some sort of training for the horse before he gets much older. That would be the most important thing to do..
    Posted via Mobile Device
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        04-24-2012, 07:17 PM
      #55
    Super Moderator
    I would not invest any more energy in the colt unless he were mine. They strike me as people who will gladly accept anything you "give" them, but give back little inreturn. Takers. Don't get taken.
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        04-24-2012, 07:29 PM
      #56
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    maybe, if you indicate how much you miss your old mare, and how the baby is the spittin' image of him, they might offer him to you. Especially if his behavior gets so ornery that they don't want him.
    I question how good of friends they are if they did not offer to help with the vet bills for the mare, at all. Your taking the mare to your property was temporary, wasn't it? And there was not negligence on your part that caused the colic?

    To me, if I were them, I would have offered to split the vet bill.
    Maybe you can find them a good babysitter horse, and offer it in trade for the weanling?

    They know she was special to me but I think they also know how good of a deal they got as well and how well-bred a colt they got out of the deal.
    Me taking the mare was basically because they had no way to separate them until he got older.
    And no, I would not intentionally neglect my horse. I don't know what caused her to colic. From what I understand there are many things that can contribute to colic. I was heartbroken.
    I paid the bill because she was always mine as far as I was concerned and it had to be done then and there and she was in my care at the time. The total of the bill came up but was never offered to be paid so I let it go. Personally, I was just glad that I got to be with her in her last moments and got to tell her good-bye.
    I had thought of helping them find another horse but they don't seem interested and have basically lost interest in riding altogether.
    If the time is right and they seem stressed enough not to want to deal with him then I will approach the subject again and offer to purchase him.
    Thanks for the reply.
         
        04-24-2012, 07:32 PM
      #57
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    i would not invest any more energy in the colt unless he were mine. They strike me as people who will gladly accept anything you "give" them, but give back little inreturn. Takers. Don't get taken.
    Agreed. And don't get suckered into working with the colt in hopes of getting it. They can pay you for that.
    Once the colt would get better I'm sure they would fall in love with him all over again... Nothing but heartache...
    Posted via Mobile Device
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        04-24-2012, 07:36 PM
      #58
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dirtroadangel    
    I feel sorry for the ol' mare I'd be heartbroken if it was with me that long.
    Do you have a trainer that could work with you and the 2 yr.old?
    Not having done anything with the colt by this family he's probably spoiled.
    Good Luck
    They should consider getting some sort of training for the horse before he gets much older. That would be the most important thing to do..
    Posted via Mobile Device


    I totally agree. I mentioned the fact he needs to be worked with to them and they said they know of someone. (Never entertaining the idea of it being me or someone I know). I think because they know I want him and don't want me to have a leg up on him. (No pun intended LOL). However, they are concerned he isn't big enough yet. In my opinion, a horse is never too young or small to work with atleast on the ground. But anyway. Just a bad deal.
         
        04-24-2012, 07:52 PM
      #59
    Trained
    One question OP, did you lease this mare to them or did you sell her, meaning there was a change in ownership on her registration papers? Something seems "off" to me.
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        04-24-2012, 08:25 PM
      #60
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by waresbear    
    One question OP, did you lease this mare to them or did you sell her, meaning there was a change in ownership on her registration papers? Something seems "off" to me.

    I was going to lease her or just let them keep her and care for her but they offered to buy her from me for a small amount. However, AQHA had her as deceased, they said after so many years horses become inactive or known as deceased, and like I said, she was 19 at the time. So I had to get her papers up to date and prove she was in fact alive in order to help them register the foal. Otherwise, they would have never been interested in her papers, never was from the beginning of the sale. After all, we were under the impression she would never take or could ever become pregnant, not to mention she was in her golden years. They simply wanted a pasture pet. Something they could put their kids on to ride around the farm.
    Not sure what you meant as to something seems off, but hope that answers your question.
         

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