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A solid paint?

7K views 36 replies 13 participants last post by  Eastowest 
#1 ·
Which iv been told is the same as breed stock paint. In order to be a true "breed stock paint" it has the have a white marking somewhere located on its body correct? I had a breed stock paint and he had a white marking on his stomach a about the size of a 50c piece. I was told if they have no white markings on their body then they are not a true paint. Is this true? Or is there such a thing as a solid paint
 
#2 ·
From what I understand, a breeding stock paint is a horse with 2 paint parents that, for some reason, is born with none of the white markings normally associated with paint horses. Like they are born with a small star and one sock but no other white.

I think it is kindof the same thing as a crop-out in the QH world.
 
#5 · (Edited)
A "Stock Paint" doesn't have to have ANY markings on him at all, the only requirement is that one or more of the parents is registered with APHA. If only one parent is, then the other must be Quarter Horse with AQHA registration or a Thoroughbred registered with Jockey Club.

The registration will state "Breeding Stock" in the Upper right hand corner (see example below). Cinny is a good example...his only markings are a star, broken strip and a snip on his face. No blue eyes, no socks, nothing else. Most people think he's a Quarter Horse.

LEFT


RIGHT


REG EXAMPLE


To be in the regular paint registry without the "Breeding Stock" in the upper right corner it needs to have a white spot extending more than 2 inches other than usual markings such as stars, socks, etc..... or white reaching above it's knees...I think some white faces with blue eyes qualify as well.
 
#9 ·
Yes, it sounds like a Breeding Stock paint. I know on Cinny's papers it says "Solid" under pattern...maybe they are talking about that, or have you seen the actual papers? I think they used to word it differently before they started coming out with the "Paint Alternative" division.
 
#8 ·
We think the papers he has are not his. He has no white markings what so ever besides a little on his face and socks. No blue eyes. And it says he is a solid paint. The papers say he is black but the horse is a liver chestnut. We looked up his pedigree online and its completely opposite of his actual papers, he is a gelding but his pedigree online says he is a mare.
 
#11 ·
It sounds like somebody along the line got their papers mixed up. Either the person that sold the horse, or if the owner has another horse...maybe he himself. It smells really fishy to me! The colors don't really do it for me, just the fact that the horse is a gelding and the papers say mare, says it all.

Some black horses fade to what looks like a liver chestnut...in fact Cinny is starting to do this. As for the wording on the Papers, does it say "solid paint" on the upper right, or just in the pattern description? Cinny's says it in his patter description.
 
#12 ·
it says solid paint in the upper right hand cornerr. The actual papers that they have say he is a gelding but look here oh allbreedpedigree.com and type in Two Times Blue. it says he is a mare and the bloodlines are completely different then the actual papers.
 
#13 · (Edited)
oooohhhhh well, the pedigree sites online can sometimes be off. They are not done by any of the registries themselves it's a completely different entity. Also check for weird quirks in names. My horse was meant to be registered as Smokies Cinch Bet but it was actually recorded as smokiescinchbet all one word and they want 100 dollars to fix it...NOT. If you type it in with the spaces you don't really come up with him either. But I don't trust those online pedigree things as far as I can throw Cinny! Also they don't account for different registries having horses the same exact name...so if you are only typing in the name how do you know you are looking at the Paint with that name or the QH or the TB?
 
#15 ·
Just for giggles I looked up Cinny, they actually don't have him under his recorded name as it appears on his papers, they have him with the spaces. Also, they have his dam recorded as a paint and she is DEFINITELY NOT a paint she's a QH, I've seen her papers because the person I got Cinny from still owns her. She's registered AQHA and has NO color at all AND, Cinny's grand sire is listed on their with his name MISPELLED and as a paint. If you look him up with the correct spelling, he is in there again as AQHA. I've seen pictures of him, again no spots.

DONT TRUST THAT THING, LOL.
 
#16 ·
Yeah, you can never be sure about allbreedpedigree cause any person can get a login name and change a horse's information. Also, whether or not he is registered as a breeding stock I think would depend on the height of his socks. If they are very tall stockings, then I don't think he would have to be registered as a breeding stock cause he still exhibited the markings of a ?tobiano?.

Cinny, I have an account with allbreed. If you would like, I can go in and change Cinny's info for you.
 
#18 ·
Actually LAUGH LAUGH, it let me do it without a log in, the only thing I couldn't change was the name to appear as it is on his papers. It DID let me change his dam to the correct one and add in his picture and all sorts of other fun stuff....

So I guess ANYONE can change the info without a log in too lol
 
#17 ·
A. A horse meeting bloodline requirements outlined in Rule RG-015. must
have a definite “natural Paint marking”.
B. For the purpose of this rule, the term “natural Paint marking” shall mean
a predominant hair coat color with at least one contrasting area of solid
white hair of the required size with some underlying unpigmented skin
present on the horse at the time of its birth. This solid white area must
be in the prescribed zone depicted in the illustration below. In the event
the horse has a predominantly white hair coat, the term “natural Paint
marking” shall mean at least one contrasting area of the required size of
colored hair with some underlying pigmented skin present on the horse
at the time of its birth. This colored area must be in the prescribed zone
depicted in the illustration below.
C. The “natural Paint marking” as described in B above must extend more
than two-inches (2”) and be in the prescribed zone depicted in the illustration
below.
D. The “natural Paint markings” on a horse with both parents registered as
described in Rule RG-015. may be anywhere on the horse’s body or legs
behind a line:
  1. (Reference point 1) from the base of the ear forward horizontally to
    the base of the other ear; or
  2. From the base of the ear to the outside corner of the eye, continuing to
    the corner of the mouth; or
  3. From the corner of the mouth, under the chin, to the other corner
    of the mouth; or
  4. (Reference point 2) A level line around the leg at the center of the knee.
    (The center of the knee is determined by using the bony protrusions on the back of the knee as the starting point and drawing a level line horizontally around the knee).
  5. (Reference point 3) A level line around the leg at the point of the hock.
    (This hock line is determined, starting at the point of the hock and drawing a line horizontally around the hock).
  6. The “natural Paint marking” need not be visible from a standing
    position.
  7. Non-qualifying areas include but are not limited to the following
    locations:
    a. Eyeballs;
    b. Lips of vulva;
    c. Shaft of penis;
    d. Inner sheath not visible without physical manipulation of the area.
When you register your solid Paint-Bred (formerly referred to as Breeding Stock) horse

According to the APHA rulebook, for inclusion in the Regular Registry a horse must have a body spot exceeding two inches in diameter,not including normal leg markings, etc.

Hope this helps
 
#19 · (Edited)
Oh, wow LOL. Yeah, the only reason that I got an accout with them was so that I could add all the horse that I have copies of their papers (and that's a lot). Plus, if you have an account, it will show you the pedigree quite a few more generations back without having to click on each individual ancestor. I don't know if I would be able to change his name or not. If you would like, I can go try. It is all one word in small letters, correct?

EDIT: Okay, never mind. It won't let me do it either. :(
 
#21 ·
A paint horse born out of one or two paint parents, can be registered with the APHA even without 'paint' markings...as long as he is 'paint' in bloodline, he can still be registered paint...just would be considered breeding stock, or 'solid'.
 
#22 ·
Well I didn't know if it was like dogs, if the markings aren't what the accociation says they should be they aren't allowed to be registered. Like I have an almost all white perfectly healthy pure austrailian shepherd yet akc won't allow it. From my understanding of what wyominggrandpa posted they must have a white marking somewhere on their body other then the face an below the knee that is 2 inches or more to be considered a "solid" paint.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#23 ·
What wyominggrandma posted is from the rule book regarding the NORMAL registry... for Solid Paint you don't have to have the normal markings...like Cinny, just at least one Paint parent and the other AQHA or Jockey club registered...otherwise Cin wouldn't be registered with APHA. His only claim to Painthood is his Sire was a paint. He has no white that isn't' in the normal areas (socks, stars, etc).
 
#24 ·
Yes you can have solid paints. And if your dog's parents are AKC, then he can be registered even if he came out purple w/ blue spots, as long as both parents are AKC, BUT he can't be shown in conformation shows.

I have a solid white great dane, she can't be shown, because it's a fault in the standard, but she can be registered.
 
#25 ·
To put it simply, a breeding stock Paint is a registered Paint horse without any pinto markings, which is entirely possible. Paint as a breed does not automatically mean a pinto horse. There is no such thing as not being able to register a purebred animal based on color. In Arabians, the sabino gene is a relatively new thing, or at least a relatively new widespread thing and the sabino Arabians cannot be shown in halter - it's considered a deviation from breed standard and not desirable. That doesn't mean they can't be registered.

IF your Paint has a spot on his belly, he should technically be allowed to be registered as a normal Paint as it's blatantly obvious he's carrying a pinto gene then. However, the registry rules change quite often and the people deciding the rules are always light years behind the latest discoveries in color genetics.

I have a friend who has a registered Breeding Stock Paint gelding, and he's obviously sabino - his back legs are splashy almost to his hocks, and he has a big white blaze. But according to registry rules, he doesn't have enough white!
 
#26 · (Edited)
Others have touched on it, but to reinforce...

- A Solid Paint (previously known as Breeding Stock) is still a Paint, just listed differently with the APHA.
- A Solid Paint does not have to be 'solid'. It just doesn't have enough contrasting color (white or dark) in the area defined by the APHA rules to be listed on their 'normal' registry even though the pattern may be obvious. The rules do change...as a matter of fact the reference lines were recently changed. They are fairly arbitrary in my opinion.
- From a breeding perspective, they still carry 'pinto' genes. Our youngest mare, Cinnamon, has enough body white to be registered on the normal registery, but has three full sisters that are completely solid except for a little white at the hoof and the blaze (and are listed as Solid Paints).

 
#27 · (Edited)
>>>>> There is no such thing as not being able to register a purebred animal based on color.

Thats not always true. It depends on the rules of the particular registry. For example, Friesians are black, and no white markings beyond a small star are allowed. If the color is wrong, the Dutch (original) Friesian registry will not register the horse-- the US registry will register the horse if it is parentage verified, but no offspring from the wrong-color Friesian are registry-eligible (to keep the wrong color from being passed along.). Cleveland Bays must be bay, and up until 2005 could not have any white beyond a small star. From 2005 the registry relaxed their stance on allowable white markings due to the critical rarity of their breed.

Also the Paint and Pinto registry will not register any horse with appaloosa markings, even if both parents are registered in their respective registries. There are more-- this is just a few examples-- again, it depends on the registry.
 
#29 ·
My mare Sonya is a solid paint however she has the 3 high white stockings and a white face but when you look under her belly she has that dollar size paint splash on her belly which is what makes her a paint . Her father is the exact same , she looks just like him ! Have you looked under his belly for a splash of "paint "haha
 
#32 ·
She's not a solid Paint then. She may be registered as one, but it's technically incorrect as she is obviously pinto. Pinto doesn't have to display in loud splashy markings to exist. This is a picture of a horse that has sabino - I bet money he has NO white anywhere on his body except what you see. This is typical of sabino, and he is still a pinto and would sire pinto foals:



 
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