Spook Gotta Gun - What do you think? - Page 3
 
 

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Spook Gotta Gun - What do you think?

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    02-03-2010, 11:51 AM
  #21
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
I believe it is not just bald faces but a certain pattern of bald face that you see deafness in. If it was a simple as a simple gene then you would see more solid colored Gunners deaf and you do not. The ones that are all have the same face markings as he dose. Normally very close if not hitting the ear. While it is most likely not just the color but more where it is located on the face it makes it more complicated then a simple gene.
I'd be very curious to read up on it. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts it's not a 'simple gene' but it is of course linked to genes, and perhaps the if a certain color gene loci "bumps up to" the deafness gene loci, you get a deaf bald faced horse. But again not all bald faced, blue-eyed horses are deaf, correct? So saying it's 100% color related is false, it just happens to be that when one event happens, it triggers a second event to happen as well.
This has piqued my curiosity to see if certain sire/dam lines carry the "bald face/deaf" gene markers, or if it is a mutation through embryonic development.
     
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    02-03-2010, 12:27 PM
  #22
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by mls    
Bloodlines from his sire are nothing to sneeze at.

While this is true. I am a much bigger believer in the bottom side of a pedigree.
     
    02-03-2010, 12:48 PM
  #23
mls
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
While this is true. I am a much bigger believer in the bottom side of a pedigree.
Why is that?
     
    02-03-2010, 12:49 PM
  #24
Trained
Well it's proven that a foal takes on more of the dams traits (Not just from her personality) but build, conformation, ability etc. That is why you want to look at the bottom side of a pedigree.

So lets see if I can put into words what I thinking about the hearing issues....

A horse that has hearing problems has a defected genes, the same gene that aids in the proper fuction of the ear can also, but not always, cause the horse to have white facial markings. Therefor it's the gene(s) that are causing the hearing issues, not the color. It just so happens that the facial markings and the function of the ear and linked to some of the same gene's.

Now, I'm saying that all horses that have hearing issues are going to have bald faces and vise versa, catch my drift?
     
    02-03-2010, 12:57 PM
  #25
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by FehrGroundRanch    
Well it's proven that a foal takes on more of the dams traits (Not just from her personality) but build, conformation, ability etc. That is why you want to look at the bottom side of a pedigree.

So lets see if I can put into words what I thinking about the hearing issues....

A horse that has hearing problems has a defected genes, the same gene that aids in the proper fuction of the ear can also, but not always, cause the horse to have white facial markings. Therefor it's the gene(s) that are causing the hearing issues, not the color. It just so happens that the facial markings and the function of the ear and linked to some of the same gene's.

Now, I'm saying that all horses that have hearing issues are going to have bald faces and vise versa, catch my drift?
Bingo.

Color =/= deaf
Gene = deaf

It just so happens that perhaps a certain gene's location for color might be in association with the gene that affects hearing.
Just like my deaf white cat. Her mom was white, but not deaf. Most of her siblings were white, but not deaf. She is white and is most certainly deaf, but it's not the white causing the deafness.
     
    02-03-2010, 04:31 PM
  #26
Trained
I agree that in and of itself the white or color gene is not causing the problem in and of itself. What you do see is that you do not see deaf horses from that line who are deaf and do not have white/bald faces and they are normally very high white close to the ears just like Gunner. IF in some way they where not related then you would see get of Gunner who are deaf who do not have bald faces and I have been around quite a few and have yet to see or hear of one. All the deaf ones I have seen or heard of are all bald faces very very similar to his. Also both his sire and dam are hearing neither have a lot of white.

I do not think at least with the Gunner line you have one with out the other. Or at least you do not see solid face deaf horses with in this line.
     
    02-03-2010, 04:37 PM
  #27
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by mls    
Why is that?
I think Fehrgroundranch summed it up fairly well. To me the dam adds so much more then the sire. You can literally have thousands of get from the same sire but only a few true 1/2 siblings. If you study pedigrees you will see certain traits and even performers out of the dam where the sire is not quite as good with out that dam line.

Nu Chex To Cash is a good example of this. If you look at the vast majority of his outstanding get are out of a certain line. While there are some exceptions to this rule the rule wins the vast majority of the time. He needs a very strong dam line to get a good foal.

Even look at great sires like Doc Bar. While he has a lot of good get his best are out of Poco Bueno daughter/g-daughters. Hollywood Jac 86 best cross is Great Pine. The dams line influances what you get a lot of the time. I also look very hard at tail line. Also where certain horses fall with in the pedigree. There are certain horses I do not like top side and others I do not like bottom side. As some sires are much better broodmare sires then sire of sires.
     
    02-03-2010, 04:40 PM
  #28
Yearling
The deafness is related to pattern, splash white (not bald faces). It has to do w/ the lack pigment cells inside the ear, you can't tell by looking if they are pigmented or not, and yes ALL horses that are lacking that pigment are deaf.

I have a deaf great dane, and it is related to her pattern. Not all white great danes are deaf, some merlequin great danes are deaf, if they have pigment inside their ear they can hear, if not they are deaf (less white on their head gives a better chance they can hear, but is not a guarantee). (in danes (and dogs that come in merle) it goes along w/ the merle gene). You could call it genetic in the since that both her parents carried one merle gene, but it's only an issue when both parents pass them. I could breed my dog and as long as I breed her to a black or mantle, or some other non merle dog there wouldn't be any issues w/ her passing on her deafness.

Sorry, hard to explain, I hope that makes since!
     
    02-03-2010, 04:53 PM
  #29
Yearling
Here is a site about splashed whites, it doesn't really explain 'why', but it does talk alot about deafness in splashed whites.
Overo Lethal White Syndrome (OLWS)
Here's one w/ some more info,
Deafness in American Paint Horses Examined :: Q-Horse! :: Care2 Groups
     
    02-03-2010, 05:40 PM
  #30
Trained
^ That's what I thought, the lack of pigment in the eardrum.
     

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