Stallion for this mare?
   

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Stallion for this mare?

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    04-21-2011, 10:55 AM
  #1
Trained
Question Stallion for this mare?

Yes I know that the answer is DON'T breed her, that is of course a given, but..

I bought this mare a couple of years ago, she is a good big solid mare with amazingly comfortable gaits, but she is a grade and has all to obvious conformation faults. My problem is husband is really taken with this mare, the man who doesn't like horses, wants to sell most of mine etc etc, I've tried to sell this girl a couple of times and he has sabotaged the deals,

He is now talking about letting her have one more foal, she has had a few in the past and was bred when I bought her, and she is a great Mum.

SO, while I will do my level best to talk him out of this action, which would obviously be the best choice, has anyone got suggestions of a stallion who could actually overcome have problems, and give him a nice foal? I would be pushing towards something that would grow up as a riding horse for me, aimed at low level dressage and jumping, looking for height and athleticism, color would be an absolute bonus, but not a primary concern.

Here are some pics of her.









     
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    04-22-2011, 10:35 AM
  #2
Weanling
Yup - she does need some help!!!

Ok - here goes from my end ...

Starting at her back end, she is lighter in behind than she is in front - she isnt balanced front to back. You need to select a stallion that will give her a larger engine in behind.

It might the angle you've taken the picture at or she is shorter in the legs than ideal, but I believe you need to find a stallion that will give her more length of leg as well

Her shoulder is straighter than ideal, tying in to a shirt, thick neck and she has a head that is plain, so I would again want to select a stallion for her that will improve her shoulder, give her a longer neck and better topline and a prettier head on the foal

In the front view picture she looks to be turning out badly in the right fore but it isnt obvious in the other pictures so it might just be how she was standing in this one ...

I am going to throw both Guaranteed Gold

Guaranteed Gold



Into the options for her as well as Winner:

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColoursFarm/Winner.html




Both will improve her in areas that she needs improvement on. GG will provide the prettier head - I don't think that Winner will

GG will give her a better hind end than Winner will. Both will improve the shoulders, necks and give the foal more "legginess".

GG will 100% guarantee a dilute colour for the foal, WInner will 100% guarantee a grey foal

Let me know if I can assist at all and good luck in your decision!

sales@truecoloursfarm.com
     
    04-22-2011, 12:02 PM
  #3
Trained
Thanks for jumping in, TC, and for your very honest assessment of my mare there.

Of all the things you have mentioned, the head is the least of my worries, it would merely be a bonus to have a pretty head, and or a pretty color, but working back from there...

*SIGH*

Her neck and shoulder are kind of the main worries, and unfortunately this is a trait that she stamps on her foals, they tend to be thick through the jowl, and short in the neck, hang on this is her latest effort



See no neck, very thick through the jowel, but I'm thinking his shoulder angle does look better than hers?

I'm not so worried about length of leg, having a personal preference for big horses on short legs, BUT that doesn't give much future as an athlete, although I've known some great athletic jumpers who were more compact.

I do admire GG, he is a handsome boy, and he has some stunning foals on the ground for sure, but without being rude, do really think that his strengths can overcome her short comings?? Both mum and dad add to the genes of a foal, and I think a lot of the stallion that is Stewie's dad, but he wasn't able to improve much on her.

I would of never of thought of GG as a stud for Bert, just way out of my league, seeing as she is a grade nothing of a mare. You must have wonderful confidence in your boy to even suggest him.

As I say I would be more than happy not to breed her again, and I'm hoping that common sense will prevail, but IF he really wants to have one more go, then as I say I really really want to go with something than will have a good chance of improving her.

I was even wondering whether an Arab with an extreme front end would be able to stamp her baby a little better, but I have nightmares about a sea horse head and neck on a draft type body
     
    04-22-2011, 12:30 PM
  #4
Banned
I think that cremello is beautiful. Would be great for your mare. I did a color calculator. Here are the results of the offspring
29.17% -
Perlino
29.17% -
Buckskin
16.67% -
Palomino
16.67% -
Cremello
4.17% -
Smoky Cream
4.17% -
Smoky Black
     
    04-22-2011, 12:32 PM
  #5
Banned
Wow sorry it didnt work I tried to copy and paste ill just typeit.
Perlino 29.17%, buckskin 29.17%, palomino 16.67% cremello 16.67%, smoky cream 4.17%, smoky black 4.17%
     
    04-22-2011, 01:14 PM
  #6
Trained
Kaydee, if she bred this mare to a double dilute there is no way she would produce a double dilute. This mare does not carry cream.

Sorry TC, but I don't think either of your studs are right for this mare.
     
    04-22-2011, 01:59 PM
  #7
Weanling
This is where it helps immensely to have a history with the potential stallion to see EXACTLY what he has produced with mares that are the same, or worse, than your mare is and of the same breed or close to it. No point in saying he produces gorgeous WB or TB foals if your mare is a Draft cross ...

So - here goes. Here is what he has produced out of mares that would be a direct comparison to yours

Dam is a full Percheron:



This is her filly by Guaranteed Gold - the grey filly - as a 2 and 3 year old. I LOVE this filly and would have never thought this cross would have produced something this elegant!



And:



GG gelding out of a Clyde mare:



GG filly out of a Shire mare:




Another GG full Shire cross filly:



And not a Draft cross, but this was a mare I owned - full WB, 17.2, head on her like a fur covered mailbox, VERY straight shoulder, short thick neck, weaker hind end. NOTHING elegant about her at all ...




Once upon a time I may well have said "no thank you. I am not interested in breeding my stallion to your mare, but when I see time and time again how much he improves the mare in key weak areas, I have no hesitation at all in doing so

Please do let me know if I can assist at all and like I told another Mare Owner a few weeks ago who is also considering breeding her mare whom she adores to GG, sometimes breeding a mare because she is a really pleasant, agreeable, VERY nice to be around animal to a stallion that can assist her in areas that she is weak, makes much more sense than breeding a mare who is conformationally better, with *better* bloodlines, that you don't know or like as well and ending up with a foal that may look better but isnt as pleasant to be around. There is a lot to be said for horses that just fulfill a need to be a pleasant companion to hang out with and enjoy life with versus being registered with fancy bloodlines which doesnt prevent them from being shipped through the auction houses either ...
     
    04-22-2011, 02:10 PM
  #8
Trained
Um the two shire cross filly pics look like they are exactly the same filly...


Eta -
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueColours    
...
GG filly out of a Shire mare:


Another GG full Shire cross filly:


...
     
    04-22-2011, 02:23 PM
  #9
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueColours    
Please do let me know if I can assist at all and like I told another Mare Owner a few weeks ago who is also considering breeding her mare whom she adores to GG, sometimes breeding a mare because she is a really pleasant, agreeable, VERY nice to be around animal to a stallion that can assist her in areas that she is weak, makes much more sense than breeding a mare who is conformationally better, with *better* bloodlines, that you don't know or like as well and ending up with a foal that may look better but isnt as pleasant to be around. There is a lot to be said for horses that just fulfill a need to be a pleasant companion to hang out with and enjoy life with versus being registered with fancy bloodlines which doesnt prevent them from being shipped through the auction houses either ...
You see that is another part of my issue with this mare, she is a pain in the butt to be around, now ther is something about her that I really like, but if you nailed me to the wall and threatened my with a .22 I couldn't actually give you a good reason to breed a poorly conformed, uncertain tempered good for nothing witch like this mare. I don't know why I like her, and it is totally beyond all comprehension why husband likes her

IDK, I have no issue with breeding a grade, I have no issues with people who want to make themselves a designer horse, for a purpose, but we all know the breeding is gambling, and in any gamble it's better to try and rig the odds in your favor, and I believe that starting with good old Bert immediately skews the odds away from a successful outcome.

For the benefit of sharing experiences I will keep this discussion on the board for now, hope that is OK.

You have some nice looking foals from GG and draft mixes, that is clear to see and some of the mares are not the best examples of a brood mare, but to truly know the influence your boy is having on the offspring you would have to see other foals by a different sire.

Berts past offspring

This to an unknown , presume QH stud




These








By this Boy (all before I bought her)



And then of course Stewie here



By this boy




I would say that she dominates and I wonder if GG could overcome her short comings.
     
    04-22-2011, 02:26 PM
  #10
Weanling
Stallion #1 has a horrible shoulder and horrible neck. No wonder the foals all came out like they did

Stallion #2 has a better shoulder and better neck and Stewie does look like he has been improved in those areas as well
     

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