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Stallion-searching: Which one for my mare?

11K views 63 replies 27 participants last post by  dbarabians 
#1 ·
I’m looking to breed my mare for the final time later this year (in about two or three months). Since this will be her second and final foal, I’m wanting something pretty nice, and can afford to find a stud that’s more suited to her (my ‘limit’ on stud fee’s, though, is $250). I’ve been looking and have found four studs that I really like. One of them is located just down the road from me and I’ve always loved him, but he doesn’t really compliment my mare all that well. The other three are in Tennessee.

I have permission to post pictures of these stallions, and I would like some opinions on which one most compliments my mare. The stallions-owners only request is that there are no critique’s of the stallions, just opinions on how well they do or don’t suit my mare and why or why not.

First off, here’s my mare. She’s a Tennessee Walking Horse (unregistered, though), and is nineteen years old. My plans for the resulting foal will be mostly as a trail horse, though maybe a few ‘just for fun’ shows here and there (obstacle challenges, trail challenges, etc…).



(Stallion A)
This stallion is nineteen years old and registered as “Last Chance” in the TWHBEA and RHAA. He’s owned by a breeder just down the road from me. Stud fee: $0, as I would get a free breeding if I chose this stallion because the owner of this stud is a family friend and see’s me like a grand-daughter. This is the one that I absolutely adore, but I know he doesn’t suit my mare that well.



(Stallion B)
Registered TWHBEA as “Kir Royale”, this stallion is only two years old (I’m pretty sure). His sire is Eb’s Wind Dancer, but I’m not sure about who his dam is. He’s homozygous champagne (ee Aa ChCh). Stud fee: $250




(Stallion C)
TWHBEA registered “Kneival’s Pushin Starbucks” is a 2010 double agouti cremello tobiano stallion (ee AA CrCr nT) He is a 3X Reserve World Champion in SSHBEA Sport Horse (2012 2-year-old pole bending, 2-year-old barrel racing, and 2-year-old reining RWC). He is sired by Kneival’s Pusher Man and out of Starbuck’s Main Lady. (I’ve seen him in person as well, and he’s really nice… my only real ‘issue’ with him is that he’s shorter than what I like, but that’s not a major issue) Stud fee: $250
[/B][/COLOR][/B]


(Stallion D)
This stallion is a homozygous black, homozygous tobiano triple registered Tennessee Walking Horse stallion (TWHBEA registered as “General Hector”). His sire is WGC “Colors in General” and his dam is TWHNC WC “Generators Winning Colors” (who is a full sister to “Generator’s Color Guard”). He is DNA tested to be homozygous for the tobiano gene and homozygous black (EE aa TT) Stud fee: $250


So, opinions on which stallion would cross best with my mare? I’m kinda partial to General Hector. I really like how his neck is set onto his shoulders, but other than that, I can’t tell how he would cross with my mare. I know that she’s a little heavy in the front and has a low-set neck, but that’s about all I can pick out.
 
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#3 ·
My first thought, I must be some sort of snob because I wouldn't breed any of my mares to a $250 stud, think far to much of them for that.

My second thought, IF I could only afford that money for stud fees I would probably take my $250 to the local auction and buy the best weanling being run through, I'd probably have to buy two though to use up my money.

My third thought, I know nothing of of walkers, so can't input on which you should choose. If I did input it would be a little hypocritical, because I don't think you should breed her period.
 
#4 ·
ETA: The pictures of all the studs are prolly several months old or older. I don't think I have any real recent pics of them. I am not asking for any type or critique on anything, weight or otherwise.

I'd just like to know which one best compliments my mare, because regardless, I AM going to breed her to one of them and want to choose the best one for her that would throw the nicest conformed foal, specifically a nicer head, neck, and shoulder set.
 
#5 ·
I could afford more on stud fee's, just don't really want to go much higher, because out here, $250 is a LOT for a stud fee.
 
#9 ·
Genuine question, is that because the horse market is so poor down there that stud fees are universally low, or just that walkers are that cheap.

Up here, $500 is for a mediocre meh type stud

$750 would give you a nice workman like horse,

$1000 opens the door to the level I would want to breed my girls to.
 
#7 ·
Personally, I wouldn't want to breed your mare as her conformation leaves a lot to be desired. That's not to say that she's not a nice horse, I'm sure she is, but I wouldn't want to reproduce that steep shoulder and weak hind end...among other issues.

Not only that, but like others have said, I wouldn't breed to any of those studs, regardless of the stud fee.

The problem with breeding to studs with cheap stud fees is that the studs just aren't that good. There are conformational issues with all of them, most of them are underfed and generally not well cared for.

Add to that, the only reason the last 3 are studs is just because of their color. I'd lay odds that if they'd been born bay or sorrel, they would have been gelded when they were weaned...or earlier.

You can pick up a much better quality horse at your local auction (or off CL) for much less.
 
#8 ·
If you bred the colt to the pinto or the cremello you could register the foal with the Palomino Horse, or Pinto registries. Colour does add value.
Those are not good pictures of either your mare or the stallions so I really cant tell which is best suited to your mare.
If I could I would ignore the part about no critique and tell you what I thought.
As it is the pinto seems to be the best of the 4. Then again I know very little about walkers.
If 250 is a lot of money go with the free one. good luck. Shalom
 
#11 ·
I personally don't feel your mare has enough desireable traits for breeding but if you are set on breeding, from the studs you posted, I like the first and the last, although the first one looks very thin and has no muscle tone.

Are these registered horses?



MOD NOTE: When typing your posts, please ensure they are respectful and without sarcasm or rudeness. Sugar coating is not neccessary but mature replies are requested.
 
#12 ·
I'm not trying to rail on you, but it has always been my opinion that it's better to save a horse for your next trail buddy than it is to breed for one.

Breed if you want a top dollar show pony. But there are many yearling TWH out there who are being run through the auctions, starving, and begging for someone to save them from their misery. I think any one of them would love to come live with you and be your next best friend.
 
#15 ·
I might also point out that breeding in July or August like you have planned is not a good idea. Your youngstock will be significantly smaller than what is already bred this season. Plus being born in the hotter months of the year can cause some complications for mom and baby, especially since you live in the south. Your mare is already 19, underweight, and could face some serious issues being heavily pregnant in the summer - such as tying up. June is pretty much the last month for breeding season, and even that is pretty late.
 
#20 ·
I agree that you might as well just close your eyes and pick. Either way you're putting your mare and a foal in danger. She's not in good shape and you must think fairly lowly of her to put her in that danger for YOUR happiness. A $250 stud fee is just...I can't even fathom doing that to my mare. Sorry to be frank about it, but you're making very, very poor decisions.
 
#21 ·
Since I am on a defending spree of the OP tonight... Here goes..

I know each of these stallions personally, as well as the OP and her mare. The mare is NOT underweight. She WAS last winter due to a bad feeding program which has been fixed and the mare has been perfectly fine all year. As on Monday, she is a solid 5 on a BCS. I wouldn't say that is "underweight", at all. As for the OP, she is capable of caring for the mare whether she is in foal or not.

So, firstly, the red studs name is not "Last Chance". Idc what his owner says, OP. Last Chance passed in 1985. His name is "Fast Chance", and if I remember correctly, he is one of only 2 stallions with his particular blood line left in the US. While he himself is not much to look at in the photo, he is built correctly FOR HIS BREED. Also, he has yet failed to produce a foal that was not excellent quality. Every foal of his has been very well gaited, properly conformed, and had a wonderful mind with a good work ethic and trainability.
Secondly, the champagne colt is only a 2 y/o and has only just been bred this year to two "test mares". He had a bit of a rough start before his current owner got him, which is why he is a bit thin. He is startingg his under saddle career now and will be shown and campaigned.
Thirdly, the photos of the cremello tobi stud do NOT do this guy justice! They were also from his long yearling year, and why the OP picked those out of all of his others, I do not know. This stud is a proven, winning show horse at only 3. He also carries super bloodlines. His first foal crop has only just hit the ground, but each one has been nothing but quality.
Fourthly, the black/white stud is a real Walking Horse! Also old pictures. He is my pick out of the lot simply due to the foals he has produced. He is AMAZING in every aspect and his foals are no exception. I rode his very first colt and that guy is a walking, shaking, natural fool with the mind of a 20 y/o and built like a brick house!
Not a single foal from this stallion has been anything less than great.

Now, as for the stud fees. There is absolutely nothing wrong with $250. The pleasure bred side of TWH and SSH are lower than the performance/"big lick" side. This is not uncommon or a sign that these are low quality horses. These studs' owner produces some of the nicest foals around every year. And no, the color is NOT what made them be left studs. The color is just the icing on the cake. But, if you aren't knowledgable in the TWH world, it is quite common for horses of this breed to be "colored" and many are homozygous for this and that. But these horses combine the best of all the qualities of the TWH/SSH. Conformation, trainability, mind, and color LAST. As a good friend of their owner, I can assure you they strive to produce quality offspring and work hard with their horses. They also set their fees low to allow the "common man" to get a breeding to an exceptional stallion at a low price. Money is not the object to them, bettering the breed is.

I'm truely sorry if I sound hostile, but it is only due to frustration at the lack of simply being able to answer the question asked. It is the OP's perogative to breed her mare to whatever she wants and no manner of online "don't do its!" make a large difference. I'm posetive she knows the pros and cons of what she's doing. And she IS trying to find the best match for her mare to produce the best she can.
ANE finally, IMO, OP should cross the mare on the 4th horse. He suits her the best, and he wilproduce a gaited spotted foal WHO WILL BE ELIGABLE TO BE REGISTERED as a NSSH and SSHBEA. NOT a grade foal!

*steps off soapbox for the night*
 
#22 ·
*steals soapbox*

There is a reason why there is a warning on this section of the board, it is the toughest area of the board. There are those of us who are passionate about breeding or not breeding, and for us it is not a personal attack, but somewhat of a crusade to try and reduce the amount breeding that goes on "just because"

Yes when it comes down to it it is the ops right to breed to who ever she wants to, but you come here to ask questions you will get answers, but you may not like them.

As to all teh background stories, well you know I forgot to plug my crystal ball in, so missed seeing all that you have now told us, should of picked it up from one or two pics I guess.

*gets off soap box* dusts it off and parks it for the next person
 
#23 ·
OP, sorry you cant just get an answer without a million soapbox speeches... I have seen people on this very forum breed far more unfortunate looking horses than yours without receiving near the flack. Especially after you posted with your disclaimer that you were going to breed no matter what and that you arent asking for criticism... which everyone seems more than happy to give anyway.

I would choose stallion 3. I think he has many flaws, but over all has heavier bone (ideal for a trail horse imo) and decent conformation for a TWH. I like his front end (which compliments your mares weaker one).

Remember to think your decision through with plenty of thought to the future of this foal before you breed. Good luck!
 
#24 ·
I'm not saying anyone is attacking. I respect the opinions 100% here. There is a wealth of knowledge in this place. The OP should have elaborated on the horses more than she did. That's why I did. I think very ighly of their owner, and just feel they were a bit misrepresented here.
I am only speaking for the OP here as a friend. I too have some concerns about the mares age, but there is a planned breeding soundness check in order before anything is set in stone. That is what I'm told. I know The OP has a "history" here that isn't exactly squeaky clean. Lol. But she is trying to go about this the "right way", and if she is going to do that, at least she's trying. Right?
 
#25 ·
I don't necessarily have an issue with the breeding itself(though I do feel that she could find a much, much better cross for her mare and at 19, it would not be worth the risk, IMO), however the issue is MONEY. She cannot even afford to geld a mini STUD COLT who could very well get her mare pregnant. If you cannot afford to geld($150-400, tops), you can't afford to breed. There's vet visits, shots, extra feed, the mare is older so will require much more intense care. What if something goes wrong? If you do not have at LEAST enough money for a euth/removal in the bank you should not be breeding, period. It is highly irresponsible and puts your mare in danger of losing her life or the life of her foal.

My mare is 20, I had the chance to breed her. Do I regret not doing it? Yes and no. She is worth way more to me than taking the chance to get a foal. Would I absolutely LOVE a replacement? Sure! But I value her life and her role in MY life more than that.
 
#27 ·
A 19 year old seasoned broodmare in good condition is still a good candidate for breeding. Mares are bred well into their 20's safely . In fact I have bred mares at the age of 25 without issue.
When anyone asks total strangers to pick a stallion from a photo to breed to their mare of course it raises eyebrows and makes people wonder about the ability of someone to breed and raise a foal.
Thats to be expected.
Concern about breeding a healthy 19 yo mare makes me wonder about the OPs and her defenders experience breeding horses.
The OP has given the other members plenty of reason to question her knowledge and abilities.
That is not saying that certain information might have been given in a nicer tone but hey after reading other thread in the breeding section what should one expect but some very blunt and forward answers.. My concerns are many about this planned breeding.
Since the OP has already stated she is going to breed her mare to one of these stallions my only recourse is to wish her luck. Also to pray for the future of this foal. Shalom
 
#28 ·
IMO-it is unfortunate that some here put their "I WANT......." ahead of what is in the best interest of their horse. Really sad and selfish. Go buy one on the ground. their are plenty out there. I happen to have one-a TWH X, as it turns out, who easily could have been at the meat mans by now.

Looking at stud fees I am familiar with-starting at $1K......$250 is nothing, and I am not convinced that the OP can afford the health care necessary for both mare and foal, just judging from previous posts. Again-goes back to the selfish entitled mentality. "She is mine, therefore I can do what I want.". Yeah-you can, but don't expect us all to be thrilled at your lack of sensibility, no less support it.:?
 
#29 ·
TheNinja, thanks for fixing the mistake with Leroy's name. I knew after I had written it that I'd done it wrong, but I had to go to work and didn't have time to fix it.

I am not putting my mare's health behind my own wants. I am planning on talking to the vet and layin out which issues she has (arthritis- she's on a supplement, etc...) and making sure the vet thinks she's breeding sound. If he doesn't think she'd be ok, I won't breed her.

I asked about which stud would be best suited for my mare because I'm horrible at looking and being able to tell. All I know for a fact is that the stud needs to have a nicer shoulder and better neck/shoulder tie-in. I needed opinions on which one was best suited for her because I couldn't tell anything besides what was glaringly obvious.

As for the miniature, his owners know I really don't want him that much, so I'm just working with him here and there trying to get him calmed down. Gelding him isn't my business because he's not really mine. I'm basically just training him and taming him down a little. I don't want him, I've got other horses to work with and care for and they know it.

Vet bills and such I'll be able to afford by saving a quarter of each paycheck and putting it away. My vet also does half-payments (pay half the cost at the time of seeing the mare, pay the next half later after another paycheck comes in).

Yes, the studs are registered.

I didn't put all that information on that TheNinja did because I didn't know all of that information. I just knew that the cremello stud was a reserve world champ as a two year old.

Anyway, gotta go to work. I'll check this and answer any questions when I get home at six.
 
#30 · (Edited)
"Concern about breeding a healthy 19 yo mare makes me wonder about the OPs and her defenders experience breeding horses."


Idk about you, but I get concerned with every mare bred. Just me. No I don't have a ton of breeding experience because that's not my area that I delve into regularly. I know plenty about it, as does the OP, but we don't know it first hand. She has more than a few mentors and very good vets adept in breeding very near by to help if and when needed.

Every well bred, well conformed Walking youngster I have seen are not going for pennies. The stallion owners sell their foals for anywhere from $1200- $3500 as weanlings and yearlings. Their 3-4 y/o trail horses go for more than that. You are hard pressed to get quality at a sale barn, at least not these around here. You might get lucky to pull a decent quality, but skinny, bad mannered, unhandled two year old for $600.
 
#32 ·
Every well bred, well conformed Walking youngster I have seen are not going for pennies. The stallion owners sell their foals for anywhere from $1200- $3500 as weanlings and yearlings. Their 3-4 y/o trail horses go for more than that. You are hard pressed to get quality at a sale barn, at least not these around here. You might get lucky to pull a decent quality, but skinny, bad mannered, unhandled two year old for $600.
I find that very odd, and a far better business model than horse breeding up here.

$250 stud fee and $1200 weanlings.....yeah that sounds a lot better than

$750 stud fee and $1000 weanlings, which would be more normal up here.

How come stud fees are so low and the offspring so expensive?
 
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