Stallions - Herda Carriers - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
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post #41 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 01:48 PM
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I will also tell you this as a stallion owner. I would not give a HERDA Neg Gaurentee. For a very simple reason. HERDA carriers are no different the any outher horse. SO what the mare owner gets 2 foals for the price of one? If I where to do it then I would get the carrier foal back before the mare owner gets a rebreed. As there is nothing wrong with the first foal and that foal can go on to have along and productive life as a show horse.

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post #42 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 01:54 PM
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My foal to be's great great great great grandsire is Poco Bueno, quite far back actually. I contacted my breeder to see if the dam had been tested for HERDA because of her lineage, but she hasn't tested her before. However, she is testing the mare now to see if she is a carrier for the disease. Do I care if my foal might possibly be a carrier for HERDA? Not really, because I most likely will not breed my foal down the road. And if I did, I would most certainly get my horse tested before I did. My breeder is testing her mare, and will let future customers as well as myself if the mare will be a carrier or not. I think it says alot about her, that she's going to test her mare just because I said something. But it definitely will put future customers at ease.
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post #43 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 02:07 PM
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nrhareiner,

Are you saying that you stand a HERDA carrier stallion or have bred to a HERDA carrier stallion in the past?

The information you have given is fine for general purposes but in this case, with what I am asking, you are just stating the obvious. I've read your posts and appreciate your input and agree with you on what you are saying, so far. Yet, I'm seeking more information.
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post #44 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 03:52 PM
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Yes I had a stallion who is a HERDA carrier. He was/is a g-son of Doc O'Lena out of a g-d of Peppy San. Finished reining horse. Very nice his foals are quite nice. I did stand and breed him before the test was available. When he came back a carrier I gelded and sold him. As nice as he was he offered nothing that other stallions who where not carriers had to offer. So no reason to keep him a stallion and I did not want a gelding. I also had a g-d of Poco Bueno out of a g-d of King and although she was never tested I would bet she was a carrier. I got 2 foals out of her. One was sold and gelded and the other I still have and is part of my show/broodmare band. She has been tested and is N/N however even if she was a carrier I would have little problem breeding her. Only differance is the choice of stallions.

As for your question. What is it you are wanting as an end goal? What do you loose or gain if the resuling for is a carrier or not? What is the mare like? If the mare high enough quality that crossed with this stallion could produce a stud prospect? If not then who cares if the resulting foal is a carrier or not?

Again what is it you want at the end of the day. Figure that out and then put that into the contract.

Take a look at Color foal gaurentees as that is about as close as you are going to get.

Also keep in mind that no matter what the gaurentee states that you (mare owner) will still have all the breeding cost again. So even if you get a re breed you will still end up with chut fee shipped semen fees mare care fees vet fees and so on. SO you need to figure out what you want at the end of the day. Until you do there is nothing I can tell you that would help. If I knew the answer to that then I could give some direction.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #45 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 04:42 PM
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Unfortunately, the road goes both ways.

As a mare owner, I wouldn't breed my mare to a carrier. That's my responsibility and I'm responsible for that foal and the outcome. Why would I want to risk losing my foal when I could have found an equally attractive stallion that is negative for all genetic defects. They are out there, it's the mare owners responsibility to look and breed the best possible foal from a stallion/mare combo.

There should be stipulations out there for breeding known carriers. AQHA won't be registering any H/H horses anymore for HYPP. Maybe they will be wise and not allow N/H horses to be bred.

We would wipe out all of the carriers in just one breeding generation if everyone was responsible. Fix everything that's a carrier. Boom, problem solved. :)

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post #46 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
I will also tell you this as a stallion owner. I would not give a HERDA Neg Gaurentee. For a very simple reason. HERDA carriers are no different the any outher horse. SO what the mare owner gets 2 foals for the price of one? If I where to do it then I would get the carrier foal back before the mare owner gets a rebreed. As there is nothing wrong with the first foal and that foal can go on to have along and productive life as a show horse.
I wouldn't either. Who's to say that the mare being bred isn't a HERDA carrier? How can you possibly give a guarantee when you only own half the genes that create the foal?

"The greatest pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with
him and not only will he not scold you, but he will make a fool of himself too."

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post #47 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLaPorte432 View Post
Unfortunately, the road goes both ways.

As a mare owner, I wouldn't breed my mare to a carrier. That's my responsibility and I'm responsible for that foal and the outcome. Why would I want to risk losing my foal when I could have found an equally attractive stallion that is negative for all genetic defects. They are out there, it's the mare owners responsibility to look and breed the best possible foal from a stallion/mare combo.
You have no risk by breeding a non carrier to a carrier. Unlike HyPP it takes two to get an afflicted horse. So no big deal.


There should be stipulations out there for breeding known carriers. AQHA won't be registering any H/H horses anymore for HYPP. Maybe they will be wise and not allow N/H horses to be bred.

What I think you will start seeing with the $85 deal AQHA is offering through Davis for 5 different test is the results of all on the horses papers.

We would wipe out all of the carriers in just one breeding generation if everyone was responsible. Fix everything that's a carrier. Boom, problem solved. :)
Where do you stop? If you did not breed a carrier of any genetic deffect you would not be breeding any horses at all. Every horse has defects. It is just that simple. Even if you narrow it down to things like HERDA GBED all the recessive defect again where do you stop? Do you stop at HERDA and/or GBED or do you include OLW SW2 SW3 all HZ leathal.

There is nothing wrong with carriers. They are not afflicted they are just like any other horse out there. So why is it such a big deal? As long as you test and do not breed 2 carriers you are fine.

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-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #48 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CLaPorte432 View Post
I wouldn't either. Who's to say that the mare being bred isn't a HERDA carrier? How can you possibly give a guarantee when you only own half the genes that create the foal?

Real simple Test. That is all you have to do it test your breeding horses and do not cross 2 carriers. As long as one is N/N then you will NEVER get an afflicted horse.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #49 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 05:34 PM
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I should have specified a little better. I know its as easy as not breeding a carrier to another carrier. Im saying, that not everyone is honest and for some people, its very easy to lie to get what you want. You can vouch for your stallions tests and records, but what about the mare that you dont own?

And your exactly right, there isnt one *perfect* horse in the world. There is always some flaw, somewhere.
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post #50 of 66 Old 02-22-2012, 05:53 PM
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Again test. If you have a carrier stallion require test results from UC Davis or a reputable lab. Kind of like show my the money. Show my the test.

Also with the new 5 in 1 test throuhg AQHA what I am hopping is that the results will get onto the horses papers or at the very least into the horses AQHA records just like the HyPP results does. This way no hidding it.
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-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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