Stallions - Herda Carriers - Page 6
 
 

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Stallions - Herda Carriers

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  • Spooks gotta gun a herda carrier
  • Selecting a cutting horse sire for my mare

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    02-22-2012, 06:23 PM
  #51
Foal
Just about every horse has something they can pass genetically. Unlike HYPP, where you do not need 2 copies of the gene to have the physical traits, HERDA in recessive form is harmless. The only time it's an issue is when you breed 2 HERDA carriers to each other (and then it only is about 25% of the time). Why pass up on the opportunity to breed to some outstanding horses, just because you need to pony up (no pun intended) to have your mare tested before deciding?
It's similar to SCID in Arabians or LWOS in Pintos/Paints. If a horse is a carrier.. they are just like any other horse, just have 1 gene that you need to be careful when selecting a mate for them. I know of a few SCID carrier stallions that require mare owners supply a negative test when applying to get a breeding, and I'm sure most stallion owners with a Herda postive stallion would require that as well.

It's really, not that big of a deal, unless you don't want to test your mare. And if that is the case, I recommend not breeding at all.
     
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    02-22-2012, 09:54 PM
  #52
Green Broke
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    02-22-2012, 11:23 PM
  #53
Foal
HERDA - Live Foal Guarantee

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRRoans    
I'm helping a friend select a cutting horse stallion and there is one that he would like to consider that is offering a HERDA Live Foal Guarantee (uggh! Not MY choice but it's not my decision). My question is for those that have seen several of these "guarantees," are they all the same or have you seen variations of the terms? What would be the best wording if you were to select one of these stallions?
This friend has a mare (neg. For GBED/HERDA/PSSM) worthy of a stud fee in excess of $20,000 to the #1 cutting horse sire which just happens to be the stallion offering a HERDA Live Foal Guarantee. That is my reason for asking--the reason I'm seeking first hand experience from others who are accustom to the terms and conditions of such a clause.

I'm not a person that feels the need to influence others by opinion, rather facts. So, while I have my own opinion, the choice is ultimately his and I will keep my opinion to myself (although I did share it in the original post). I'm not seeking an "answer," just seeking facts. Thanks for your input.
     
    02-23-2012, 06:17 AM
  #54
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRRoans    
This friend has a mare (neg. For GBED/HERDA/PSSM) worthy of a stud fee in excess of $20,000 to the #1 cutting horse sire which just happens to be the stallion offering a HERDA Live Foal Guarantee. That is my reason for asking--the reason I'm seeking first hand experience from others who are accustom to the terms and conditions of such a clause.

I'm not a person that feels the need to influence others by opinion, rather facts. So, while I have my own opinion, the choice is ultimately his and I will keep my opinion to myself (although I did share it in the original post). I'm not seeking an "answer," just seeking facts. Thanks for your input.
I've only seen SCID ones. Pretty much the terms are.. if the foal is a SCID carrier (they only breed clear mares, so no affected foals are born) you are entitled to one free breeding, upon the castration if it's a colt (no need to spay a filly though).

One other I have seen is that if you return the foal to them, you will get another breeding (only one more) to try for a clear foal.

Most aren't doing those now though, because there is more education available about SCID, and testing, and no need to have any worry about it. But when people were very scared about it, that did ease some minds.
     
    02-23-2012, 01:31 PM
  #55
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRRoans    
This friend has a mare (neg. For GBED/HERDA/PSSM) worthy of a stud fee in excess of $20,000 to the #1 cutting horse sire which just happens to be the stallion offering a HERDA Live Foal Guarantee. That is my reason for asking--the reason I'm seeking first hand experience from others who are accustom to the terms and conditions of such a clause.

I'm not a person that feels the need to influence others by opinion, rather facts. So, while I have my own opinion, the choice is ultimately his and I will keep my opinion to myself (although I did share it in the original post). I'm not seeking an "answer," just seeking facts. Thanks for your input.

If you are looking at a HERDA carrier stallion who stud fees are over $20K then they are going to have a contract that states what they will do if you get a carrier foal. So why are you asking here? What I would do or say or what others offer will not matter as this is not a BYB operation and they are only going to do what they are going to do and it is spelled out in their contract like it or leave it.

I would imagine that you would have to return the foal to them to get anouther breeding for the next year. I know that how I would do it if I was the stallion owner. Especially considering the stud fee.
     
    02-23-2012, 01:41 PM
  #56
Trained
I think this post is ridiclous.
Just be responsible and test your mares.
Tapperjockey likes this.
     
    02-23-2012, 01:48 PM
  #57
Trained
I do not think this has anything to do with testing of mares. I think it is about stallion owners trying to get more mares to breed to a carrier stallion. There are so many nice non carrier stallions out there why breed to a carrier? However if this stallion is actually has a $20K stud fee not sure why they need to offer anything to get mares in for breeding? When you get to that level no one is going to really care. However I see where this could be a win win for the stallion owner. If you offer this gaurentee and to get anouther breeding the mare owner has to turn over the carrier foal. So the stallion owner gets some nice foals by their stallion out of mares they never had to buy or keep. Sounds like this would be more of a benifite to the stallion owner then the mare owners. That is if that is the deal not saying it is as I have not read the contract. So with out knowing exaclty what the contract states...
     
    02-23-2012, 02:11 PM
  #58
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
I do not think this has anything to do with testing of mares. I think it is about stallion owners trying to get more mares to breed to a carrier stallion. There are so many nice non carrier stallions out there why breed to a carrier? However if this stallion is actually has a $20K stud fee not sure why they need to offer anything to get mares in for breeding? When you get to that level no one is going to really care. However I see where this could be a win win for the stallion owner. If you offer this gaurentee and to get anouther breeding the mare owner has to turn over the carrier foal. So the stallion owner gets some nice foals by their stallion out of mares they never had to buy or keep. Sounds like this would be more of a benifite to the stallion owner then the mare owners. That is if that is the deal not saying it is as I have not read the contract. So with out knowing exaclty what the contract states...
Stallion owners are going to try and make mare owners breed to them because they are a carrier. That's silly. They're going to.use their show record and pedigree; not their HERDA status.
Why not breed to a carrier if he is proven? There's a lot worse reasons to not breed. Spooks Gotta Gun throws babies that half the time end up with bad front legs, but people still pay whatever his stallion fee is and take that chance. I don't see how that makes any more sense.
As long as the stallion owner is honest about his status so mare owners can make a educated decision, I see no problem with standing a carrier.
Genetic diseases like this will keep appearing - one day a new one will appear in a new line and if we weed out all the carriers ( some who have founded some breeds) we may as well just let horses die out.
     
    02-23-2012, 02:43 PM
  #59
Trained
I think you need to go back and ready what I typed. I have no problems using carrier stallions as long as there are other things about them that out weigh that.

My point is that there are stallion owners out there especially before the test was available that would give HERDA free gaurnetees. It was a way to get mares to look at their stallions. It is no differnet today. Excpet there is a test.

My point is why even bother offering this? One thing comes to mind. If I was a stallion owner this could be a win win depending on how the contract is wrighten. Plus some mare owners just like things like this. I am not sure why a top stallion with that kind of stud fee would bother b/c you are correct they do not need to but that is what was stated in the OP latter post.

I would like to know which stallion this is and I would love to read the contract.
     
    02-23-2012, 11:57 PM
  #60
Foal
Thanks for the input Tapperjockey. Yes, new tests have usually made such guarantees a thing of the past--or so I thought.

Thanks also for those who private messaged.
     

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aqha, carriers, herda, stallions

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