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Stance on cloning?

3K views 25 replies 9 participants last post by  nrhareiner 
#1 ·
I happened to stumble across the clone of Scamper, the barrel-racing gelding, on Google, and started to wonder about the horses that are being cloned. Although I remember reading articles about cloning horses in old AQHA magazines, I realized that I haven't heard much about it recently, for some reason, and decided to look it up.

Some of the horses that have been cloned are Scamper, Romulus 16, Gem Twist, Calvaro 5, Pieraz, Grande Dame, and Chellano Z.

Personally, I don't like the idea of cloning. I really don't, I feel that it takes the intrigue out of things, I guess... But I would like to know your stance on this, everyone- I'd love to hear some pro's and con's, some opinions for and against it. :)
 
#2 · (Edited)
Pros...
-The desirable traits they were cloned because of can be passed on.
-Plus it is really cool and helps in many ways to further advance medical and scientific research.
Cons....
-Those desirable traits may only be passed on a few generations and in the long run you are narrowing the genetic pool which makes any species more susceptible to illness and disease.
That is the thing I don't like about the concept of cloning the "Great" horses. I know its OK to "interbreed" to obtain desirable characteristics but, I just don't like it. Because yeah you may get a "pretty horse" but in some cases you get a not so pretty genetic disease. To me saying "Its OK to interbreed because it wont have any negative affect as long as their is a generation between" is like saying "Its okay to breed HERDA carriers to non-carriers because that horse wont have symptoms"
Why do you think herd sires in the wild will allow outside stallions of their choice breed some of his mares? Expanding the genetic pool is a natural instinct for survival. Im the kind of person who doesnt like messing with things that are not broken. I know their will probably be someone that doesn't agree with me... so I will say this is all purely my "OPINION" from which I have formed from multiple Ecology, and Animal Behavior classes.
So I guess cloning for "fun" for lack of a better word is okay. but cloning for "breeding purposes" to me seems wrong. All good things must come to an end, in the words of my grandpa.
 
#4 ·
I don't exactly know how I feel about it, to be honest.

On one hand, I can see the benefit, especially on horses like Scamper, who was a gelding and never had the chance to improve on the breed.

However, if people start cloning every stud and/or mare that actually had a full breeding career, then I think that's taking it way too far and does limit the gene pool, like KSG said.
 
#6 ·
A little off topic but... Fun Fact of the day... Yesterday their were statements released about successfully creating Mammoth embryos. Meaning all they would have to do is find a host such as an Elephant to carry the embryo to have successfully cloned a Woolly Mammoth. I thought this was interesting so I thought I would share.
 
#10 ·
To me cloning is standing still. While the horses who have been cloned where truly great horses the next generation is and has proven to be even better so why are we going backwards? There is no need for these horses at all.

Next problem and I was talking to a genetics about this about 6 months ago. Anyway. One thing that no one seems to want to talk about is what does not happen when you clone and that is the mutation well cration of the next mix in regards to fighting off the next generation germs. The fact is that when you cross 2 animals be it horse or what ever. You not only get their mix of physical trates but you also get a mix of their imunue systes and everything ealse that has pialed up with in them over the coarse of their life. So as bugs mutate so do the animals to fight them off. So you clone a horse and they stand still in this regard yet the bugs do not. Ok I know that is not all tech and all but it was a short converstion it was not the time or place to dig in and ask all the quesions that poped into my head at the time but this the just of it.
 
#16 ·
What would the cross between a mammoth and an elephant be called? LOL

On the cloning side, the cloned animals may have their cells cloned, but not their spirit. One of the magical products of the creation of life is the uniqueness of the individual's spirit. Even identical twins have separate personalities and talents, even though they are genetically identical. So even if you clone your favorite champion cat/dog/horse, you will have a genetic copy but not the same animal in behavior or temperament. If I remember right, Dolly the sheep was cloned too, and the scientists were disappointed that the resulting clone was not a perfect clone by the fact that the clone did not possess the same personality as Dolly, it behaved very different than Dolly and aged unusually fast.
 
#17 ·
a Lot of immunity is passed on inutero and the rest of the immunity that you get comes from colostrum. You dont see kids dieing left right and centre because they were bottle fed rather than breast fed.

Now i'm going to assume that the Elephant that they use will be a healthy Elephant with all the natural immunity of her species, this should theoretically be passed on through the placenta to the wooly mamoth
 
#18 ·
a Lot of immunity is passed on inutero and the rest of the immunity that you get comes from colostrum. You dont see kids dieing left right and centre because they were bottle fed rather than breast fed.

Now i'm going to assume that the Elephant that they use will be a healthy Elephant with all the natural immunity of her species, this should theoretically be passed on through the placenta to the wooly mamoth
While yes some of the Antibodys you get for a cretain disesse that way you do not get your immune system that way. That is lymphnodes and they come from a gentic cross between your mom and dad. By cloning you dont get that next generation. So you do not get everything you could get.
 
#20 ·
Im agaist cloning. Who knows what is going to happen to the foals of the studs that are cloned.
What i have seen is the foals didnt show as good as the sire. (smart little lena) One of the foals went to one of the best trainers and well i dont know the big details but They didnt do as good as SLL, didnt even show.
 
#22 ·
You never know what happens with clonning. If could mess up one gene that know one knows it did. They take the cloning genes off a horse that is older. It already has its immune system and has built up tollorances that may not go through seman, But do in cloning.

Another problem i see is your cloning a 24 year old horse and they clone is getting the older horse genes. Not the horse in its prime.
 
#23 ·
Shows a complete ignorance of the process of cloning and of DNA/Genes.
Your genes/DNA do not change as you get older. The quality of the samples taken does vary with age but if the cells can be produced then there is no difference in taking DNA/genes from an older animal than a younger animal.

You do not damage the genes in anyway when you do cloning.
 
#25 ·
There is plenty of proof that DNA does not change as you get older!! Lots and lots of scientific published papers in good academic papers!

There are not many cloned foals out there not only because of the cost involved (think 6 figures) but also because the breed registries havnt decided what they are going to do about cloaned horses.

If you understood the science behind cloning then you would see that your assumptions are wrong.
 
#26 ·
Genes and DNA to change is as they regenerate. It is caled mutation and all genes mutate at some point. Most of the time it is insugnificant and posed no problems. In other casses you get HyPP or HERDA. So yes they do change and mutate.

That being said. I do believe they have figured a lot of that out. So it less of a problem then it was with Dolly. Her close was actually her age when it hit the ground and aged faster they they had thaught.

What I see as more of an issue is MtDNA. It is the one things left from the doner ege and the one things that is still a big mistory as what it actually really does.
 
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