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A thought about breeding...

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        07-17-2011, 11:49 PM
      #21
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by r0tts0nly    
    ok here goes you do not ride paper or pedigree or even conformation for that matter I am the average owner I think..... Me and my family do not go to shows or eventing all we do is go on trail rides as a family and we could never afford the 2 or 3 thousand $ horse or own a great pedigree horse but we do have one that is a paint but the lady gave her to my daughter for helping in her barn for the summer he needed a good home and yes he is great looking boy but needs alot of training is scared of everything. My other 2 mares r grades 1 is appy other is arabXqh I think and they are the best horses you could ask for. There is too much of every thing in the world today too many people too many cats, dogs, no matter what you look at there is too much of it some well bred and others well not so much....Even ugly people that do not have great conformation have children...No offense to anyone as I am well not the best looking or have great conformation for that matter. In old days you had to meet standard to have children as well... I guess what I am saying is that some people breed for companionship and other just look at pedigree it has been that way for ever and will proble never change. You have 2 types of people the well off do and the not so well off but both deserve to own a horse and both can take just good care of them with or without big fancy barns or areana's come of us just love to hang out with our animals not there pedigree.
    Again that is fine and dandy. Just do not breed them. That is all people are saying. Like it not Pedigrees tell you A LOT about a horse. Until you really get into breeding and ride a lot of different horses and such most people have a hard time understanding just what a pedigree can really give you and tell you about a horse.

    That said if all you want is a companion there are a lot those type of horses out there. No need to be producing more.
         
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        07-17-2011, 11:49 PM
      #22
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    What days where those?
    Vicorian times you had to have good teeth good hair ect ect.... look it up it's true..
         
        07-17-2011, 11:58 PM
      #23
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    Again that is fine and dandy. Just do not breed them. That is all people are saying. Like it not Pedigrees tell you A LOT about a horse. Until you really get into breeding and ride a lot of different horses and such most people have a hard time understanding just what a pedigree can really give you and tell you about a horse.

    That said if all you want is a companion there are a lot those type of horses out there. No need to be producing more.
    My point I guess is that some breeders that breed none pedigreed horses do not have money on there mind and want to produce the nice average pet horse for the average person . I guess you have 2 types of breeders just like in dogs some breed for pedigree and some for pets is my point ....One is not better than the other or right for for that matter..... Eye is in the beholder for instance some people breed for halter and some breed for working they never agree on the standard either....lol

    Same thing in dogs when I use to show my rottweilers I use to laugh at the others all they did was fight about which dog was the best and you had same thing there some breeders breed for working and some for show the two look like differnt breeds,,,,,lol
         
        07-18-2011, 12:04 AM
      #24
    Weanling
    I"m sorry I wasn't clear. Not downing a grade horse. Just agreeing with nrhareiner, I don't believe they should be bred.

    I own 2 grade horses (a sale barn purchase and a Pinto Registered arabxpaint) and one is crippled and will NEVER leave my pasture even if he outlives me, but there again, they are both geldings...

    My believe is if there were no grade horses, then all the sweet "he's so wonderful, saved my life, etc..... " stories would still be just as relevant, they would just be a different horses. But as r0tts pointed out, that probably isn't ever going to change. As long as there are stupid people out to make a quick buck, there will always be a flaws in the horse industry or any other industry for that matter. There are some great horses that are nobodys.... (and I know some of you are thinking "well he's someone to me!") and that's fine, I just feel that the market would be much better and probably make some of those unaffordable, great pedigree horses much more attainable if there was a limit to the reproduction of the grade horse.
         
        07-18-2011, 12:10 AM
      #25
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by r0tts0nly    
    My point I guess is that some breeders that breed none pedigreed horses do not have money on there mind and want to produce the nice average pet horse for the average person . I guess you have 2 types of breeders just like in dogs some breed for pedigree and some for pets is my point ....One is not better than the other or right for for that matter..... Eye is in the beholder for instance some people breed for halter and some breed for working they never agree on the standard either....lol

    The thing is that there is no need or market for that matter for the first type of breeder you are talking about. There are plunty of culls from good programs, horses who for what ever reason lost their papers or just need a retirement home. There is no need to breed that type of horse. The are a dime a dozen literally.

    Same thing in dogs when I use to show my rottweilers I use to laugh at the others all they did was fight about which dog was the best and you had same thing there some breeders breed for working and some for show the two look like differnt breeds,,,,,lol
    This is why I right now as I type this have 11 foster dogs here. 3 are full bred dogs. From breeders who had the same mind set as you. Last month I placed 9 dogs 6 of those dogs where full bred dogs. There is no need to breed pets. You get plenty of pet quality dogs from show breeders.
         
        07-18-2011, 12:24 AM
      #26
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    This is why I right now as I type this have 11 foster dogs here. 3 are full bred dogs. From breeders who had the same mind set as you. Last month I placed 9 dogs 6 of those dogs where full bred dogs. There is no need to breed pets. You get plenty of pet quality dogs from show breeders.

    Excuss me like me??? I have 3 champion rottweilers 2 dogs and a bitch and they have never had a litter. So hell just because they were finished ch. What I should breed them NO NO NO>>> My point is that people put too much on pedigree and registration and are very closed minded is all... not that I agree with it or not just stating the TRUTH in the matter. I do rott. Rescue get 4 a month that I train fix and find loving forever homes if possible..I am known as the local dog rescue lady in the area and people bring or drop off dogs here all the time that I find homes for and I pay for it all..... please don't judge me just because I do not agree with you on the matter.
         
        07-18-2011, 12:29 AM
      #27
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Crossover    
    This is just my personal opinion and I am interested in hearing others opinions.

    I know the economy is poor right now and like most have no idea when it will pick back up again. Horses being considered a "luxury item" tend to be on of the first things people cut back on along with the other "luxury items. Personally, I don't consider them luxury, I learned a long time ago that horses in my life are almost as neccesary as breathing.

    So to the breeding issue. Many people say that responsible breeders should stop breeding due to the poor economy and the surplus of unwanted hroses.
    My opinion is that is if all the responsible breeders stop breeding that will only leave the irresponsible breeders breeding (because we know they are not going to stop), which will lead to a surplus of poorly bred horses in the future and little quality to build back upon once things turn around again.

    Your thoughts?
    In all honesty, I don't think its the responsible breeders that need to stop. Its the backyard "I wantz a pweddy pohneh to lovez foreever" breeders that need to stop.

    As the horse industry stands now, there are too many horses and not enough homes. There are thousands of unwanted, neglected, and downright abused horses in our country (Most of which end up in these situations because the owners no longer have the means to care for a horse, the owners don't know the first thing about proper horse care, or the horses have no homes at all.) The reason for this is almost exclusively the fault of the recession and the fact that people are breeding horses when they shouldn't be breeding in the first place! This problem of equine surplus has gotten so bad that some states are considering opening up horse slaughterhouses just to deferr the cost of shipping these horses to Canada and Mexico.
    While I strongly disagree with the slaughter of horses, I have come to accept is as a temporary nessicary evil. If horses weren't getting slaughtered, they'd end up abused and starved to death in a dirt lot.

    I think we as the people of the horse industry need to get things back under control if we are ever going to get the supply/demand ratio back in balance. We need to try our hardest to discourage people from breeding horses that don't need to be bred. In the meantime, responsible breeders should breed just for the demand of their horses. And we need to push buying over breeding. Since horses can live to be over 30 years old, its going to take some time for things to shift back. But once the surplus slows, prices will increase and the horse market will start gaining some worth to it.


    As far as the grade vs. papered argument, I believe papers don't mean sh*t. Yes, papers add value and can help in identifying possible health issues; but an outstanding horse is an outstanding horse, papered or not. Do I think every grade horse in the world is worthy of breeding? Heck no. And do I think every pedigreed horse is worthy of breeding? Absolutely not! But I've met a few grade horses that I'd rather own over their papered, fancy pedigreed competitiors any day.
         
        07-18-2011, 12:30 AM
      #28
    Foal
    QUOTE I"m sorry I wasn't clear. Not downing a grade horse. Just agreeing with nrhareiner, I don't believe they should be bred. QUOTE.

    Then maybe all breeding should stop and we should take care of whats out there now instead of adding to it GOOD pedigree or NOT. Regardless of pedigree and breed or if its grade.

    NOT RELISTIC but wishful thinking.
         
        07-18-2011, 12:33 AM
      #29
    Trained
    My point is that there is no need to breed companion dogs or horses. I too show dogs and have several title dogs. Have not bred those dogs either. There is little need. For what it would cost me to breed one of my females I can go out and buy a well bred show prospect. I do breed horses for one big reason. I can not buy a prospect for the same price or even close to the same price I can breed on for. That can not be said for a lot of people who are breeding their horses.

    My point is that pedigrees do make a difference. Most people just for what ever reason can not see that. One reason I have found for this over the years is b/c most people have never ridden a truly well bred well trained horse. So they have little to compare theirs too.
         
        07-18-2011, 12:39 AM
      #30
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by r0tts0nly    
    QUOTE I"m sorry I wasn't clear. Not downing a grade horse. Just agreeing with nrhareiner, I don't believe they should be bred. QUOTE.

    Then maybe all breeding should stop and we should take care of whats out there now instead of adding to it GOOD pedigree or NOT. Regardless of pedigree and breed or if its grade.

    NOT RELISTIC but wishful thinking.
    The problem with this is that you will end up cutting off your noise to spite your face kind of deal.

    Think about all the jobs that are attached to the equine industry. If people stopped breeding quality horses there would be no young horses to start and train. So trainers would go under. Not all but most. Same with a lot of other parts of the support industry. Then there are all the shows. Then what happens when all the horses get older and there are non coming up to take their place? What about keeping lines and diverse genetics intact? There are so many reasons why good responsible breeders need to keep doing what they are doing and the others need to stop.
         

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