We need to set a standard.

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We need to set a standard.

This is a discussion on We need to set a standard. within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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    10-19-2011, 11:39 PM
Green Broke
We need to set a standard.

I've been lurking for a while, not posting. Although I still seem to see a lot of breeding threads.

I've been on a few dog forums. The standard for looking at a breeder is:
Is the stud/bitch titled? (Either AKC or working g sport, Schutzhund or other) CH (champion) SCH3 (highest Schutzhund title).
Do they health test their potential parents? (Example ofa hips/elbows, Cerf eyes, cardio/holter/ultrasounds, ect.)
If a breeder isn't showing or finishing their dogs, or not doing full health tests.. Then they are less than stellar and you shouldn't buy from them.

My question is, why don't horses have a standard for breeding such as this? Primarily stud horses.

Any input is welcomed.
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    10-19-2011, 11:46 PM
Do you think that ALL breeding dogs are titled and tested? Of course not. They should be, but there is no way to control it. If people buy pups out of these untitled, untested dogs they keep breeding. The same is true with horses.

I'm really missing your point in this thread... Good breeders of both dogs and horses test for health, show their animal, and breed to better the breed. There will always be backyard breeders in both industries.
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crimson88 likes this.
    10-19-2011, 11:49 PM
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I understand that, but when people ask for a "pretty palomino stallion" what is our standard for the good vs bad. (Obviously showing, but to what degree?)
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    10-19-2011, 11:52 PM
The same as with dogs, generally. Conformation, health, titles, temperment.

Of course, each individuals standards are different. Some people just don't care. They just want their pretty palomino or whatever bad reason they have for breeding... Same as with dogs.
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    10-20-2011, 01:23 AM
Frankly, it comes down to what the Breed Registry says - and there can be more than one.

The largest registry of Border Collies says "The true Border Collie is known by how it works sheep and cattle, and by no other standard...While a group of one hundred Border Collies will probably look as if they belong to the same breed, they will not have a uniform appearance. Since a "good" dog can be judged only by its herding performance, there is no "breed standard" of appearance to which Border Collies should conform."

Border Collie Characteristics

The AKC has butt in, however. When the dominant Border Collie club refused to create an appearance standard, the AKC wrote their own (American Kennel Club - Border Collie).

Any horse breed registry can set whatever standard it wants. Appaloosas used to require a certain color, and now I guess they do not. If someone doesn't like a standard, they can create their own and breed to it - or ignore registries and breed based off of their own idea of a good horse. I've seen some wonderful grade horses, bred by folks who knew horses but didn't care about papers.
    10-20-2011, 01:37 AM
I know nothing about dog breeding, but I would question if that is a standard or a consensus of opinions?
I think a very similar thing exists with responsible horse owners or we would all have cute wittle babies all over the place.
    10-20-2011, 02:02 AM
From the dog world:

My Border Collie had parents with a decent but not stellar record in sheep trials. His parents had been tested for hip dysplasia, but not for some other things. However, I wasn't planning on using him in trials, and the guy who recommended the match had won the National Open, and did so again the following year. He also owned a dog from the same pairing done a couple of years earlier.

From my perspective, it doesn't get much better than that. When someone who really KNOWS the breed says XYZ would be a good dog for your purposes, I have no further questions.
gigem88 likes this.
    10-20-2011, 03:09 AM
Green Broke
What also must be realized is winning championships is not everything. By winning shows in the dog world you are not always actually getting the best of the breed all around. Dogs are for more than to look at. Well, put that in the horse world. Two really awesome working horses bred responsibly are just as suited for breeding as two that have been deemed by the masses to be worthy. Good strong breeds were created not by common concensus, but by smart breeders breeding smart strong horses to develop good lines. I honestly don't care about titles, but I do want smart clean healthy lines, I prefer a working animal over a showy animal-always.
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Druydess, Gillian and gigem88 like this.
    10-20-2011, 03:11 AM
Green Broke
By the way, I am a German sheperd girl, and have watched AKC standard kill a beautiful breed. Careful breeding is bringing them back. Good breeders are careful, no matter what they are breeding, and they never plan to gain anything other than improvement in the animals they love.
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    10-20-2011, 05:07 AM
Who says a dog that is registerd and has thier health checks done is good to breed with? Like cakemom says the AKC and CKC have both ruined some if not all breeds. They had a standard for short flat noises in frnech bulldogs. Now look at them! They can hardly breathe! They have a standard for King charles spaniels to have a small head just because it looks cute. Now they have neurological issues because thier skull is too small for thier brains. German Shephards needed to have low hind ends so thier front looks bigger. Now 99 percent of them have hip dysplasia. People in the show world of dogs breed mostly for cosmetics. Not for the health of the breed. I would rather have a mut that comes of a farm yard that has been health tested. Who cares if it's a registered breed? If it's a healthy sane loyal dog then what does it matter if it has traceable lines going way back?

Now switch that to the horse world. Look at the quarter horses nowadays. They've made so many different branches in that breed that it's hard to find a good allround horse. The halters horses just cannot be ridden because they have so much muscling they just aren't flexible enough. I guess the horse world doesn't have enough problems yet but thier will be in the future. What we need to do basically is cross breed. Breed a thoroughbred with a horse that has a little more brains and bone to make it calmer horse and make a body that can actually handle the high speeds it goes at. The horse world will be falling apart years from now just like the dog worls is right this moment. Why can't we learn from that? I've had lots of horses where I don't know the breeding of. They were all "mutts" and guess what? I've never had a health problem with them once. Maybe I'm lucky but the way I see it we should start breeding for whats on the inside and not whats on the outside.
Tianimalz and birdiechirp like this.

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