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West Nile Vaccine in Breeding Stock (Graphic Warning)

This is a discussion on West Nile Vaccine in Breeding Stock (Graphic Warning) within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        07-16-2013, 12:37 AM
      #21
    Trained
    Sorry, but I very rarely fall victim to any conspiracy theory hype. And the victim mentality is very rarely used by those who take responsibility for their actions...

    I know of reputable breeders who have had terrible years (this year being one with the very finicky weather - out of 30 mares, I think 2 or 3 are pregnant) however all vaccinate properly and none have had adverse reaction such as limb deformities. However, the breeders I do know who have had limb deformities or other faults in foals outside of the norm, they have all not supplemented mares properly.

    Blame the vaccine or look at your program. It's the same as anything in life, in order to be successful we must stay humble and be willing to accept that we may not be perfect, or have the perfect ideas.
    NdAppy likes this.
         
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        07-16-2013, 12:55 AM
      #22
    Trained
    There are too many variables in each and every pregnancy to be able to tell with any certainty that something causes deformities.
    NdAppy likes this.
         
        07-16-2013, 01:02 AM
      #23
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    There are too many variables in each and every pregnancy to be able to tell with any certainty that something causes deformities.
    Yes this is what I am getting at.

    If breeders who do "everything right" can still get still births, re absorptions, etc.. then who is to say that one little thing causes all these different ailments.
    NdAppy, Chiilaa and rookie like this.
         
        07-16-2013, 02:43 AM
      #24
    Started
    Alot of these stories I hard were from when they FIRST started the WN shot. So maybe the first batch was not as safe (should not been out of the experimental stage). My friend dose not vaccinate at all, she just uses garlic and her horse was fine as all the other horses in the area where getting sick. I might take a page out of her book.
         
        07-16-2013, 03:24 AM
      #25
    Weanling
    I don't know alot about the vaccines in horses, but its the same story in humans with mothers not wanting to vaccinate their children for whopping cough (because they all jump on the band wagon uneducated) and then their toddler gives the whooping cough to a newborn and the newborn dies. People will blame whatever makes them not guilty for the problem.

    There is no real way of knowing that the vaccine has caused the mares to abort, and you have no way of knowing that if you had not vaccinated whether the mare still would have aborted the foal or the foal was born with deformities.
         
        07-16-2013, 04:36 AM
      #26
    Green Broke
    Sometimes I think crap just happens. I bought a riding mare that came pregnant (which I didn't know when I bought her) and the foal was born with a leg deformity. The only vaccine the mare had (that I know of) was a yearly 4-way. Once I found out she was pregnant I was very careful to try to balance her diet per my vet's recommendations and she did get quality feed supplements. But she was 16 at the time and this was her 10th foal (the other 9 were born before I owned her).

    So did I do something wrong? Was there something wrong with my hay or feed? Was her reproductive system past it's prime? Was it something that occured early in the foal's development before I bought the mare?

    My personal theory was that the limb must have been mal-positioned while he developed. But I don't know that for a fact.

    I dunno. I guess my point is that sometimes you are ****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't.

    I remember when the West Nile vaccine first came out I knew someone who had a horse die and they said it was from the vaccine. I don't know for sure but it sure scared the heck out of me and I didn't give the vaccine for many years......until our vet said it was in our area and he was getting cases. Then I finally started giving west nile and all the horses were fine.

    But this stuff CAN scare you. I feel so bad for those precious little babies.....they should have had a good life.
         
        07-18-2013, 12:34 AM
      #27
    Foal
    I know the previous place I worked we didn't want to give the WNV due to stories we had heard. Last year there had been 3 cases right down the road from us. We considered it, but we ended up going spending time and money on bug control and we never had a problem. There are so many natural problems that can happen that we didn't want to worry about adding another problem by vaccinating.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Becca93    
    I don't know alot about the vaccines in horses, but its the same story in humans with mothers not wanting to vaccinate their children for whopping cough (because they all jump on the band wagon uneducated) and then their toddler gives the whooping cough to a newborn and the newborn dies. People will blame whatever makes them not guilty for the problem.

    There is no real way of knowing that the vaccine has caused the mares to abort, and you have no way of knowing that if you had not vaccinated whether the mare still would have aborted the foal or the foal was born with deformities.
    I agree 100%! I personally ended up with Polio after my 2 year old booster shot. Things have changed to make sure vaccines are safe, but there is always a chance of side effects. You just have to think through the whole process and become educated.
    Druydess likes this.
         
        07-18-2013, 05:53 PM
      #28
    Started
    At the same time we don't live in a bubble. I know someone mentioned whooping cough and I think its worth mentioning. A lot of folks where I grew up did not and do not believe in vaccinating their children. A lot of which is because of a often cited and disproved paper that vaccine adjuvant causes Autism. Which means that kids can spread these diseases that like measles and whooping cough in particular to other children. The vaccinated kids are fine but the unvaccinated kids get really sick and sometimes die.

    I think Autism is a good example. A lot of people jumped on the vaccines cause autism boat. The problem is that Autism (like foal defects) is a really complicated disorder with grades and severities that are not fully understood. It seems to me overly simplistic to say that an incredibly complicated disease or disorder is caused by a single event such as a vaccine. This is particularly true when you think about the approximately 8 years of testing most antibiotics and vaccines go through to determine safety. That's double true of vaccines that are used in pregnant individuals. Now there may be merit in the fact that there is no human west nile vaccine, so I can believe arguments that the vaccine is not 100 percent effective; however, that it is a cause of limb deformities I have a harder time with.

    There have been examples of medications that did cause birth defects (most notibly thalidomyde - a anti-nausa medication of the 50s). This medication caused limb stumping, to the point where a child could be delivered with a limb deformity and the doctor would know exactly when in the pregnancy its mother had taken the medication based on what limb was developing during that time. There is nothing indicated to that specificity with this vaccine.
    nuisance likes this.
         
        07-18-2013, 06:34 PM
      #29
    Yearling
    30+ yrs ago, we had a colt born with a muzzle that looked like the foal in the first pic. That was way before WNV vaccines. I can't remember what the vet called the deformity. Colt died, couldn't suckle.

    My mare who just foaled in May, had her boosters, except tetanus, vet said no tetanus while pregnant. Filly is perfectly formed.

    Like someone said above, stuff happens. It's horrible, sad, but it happens
         
        07-19-2013, 01:47 AM
      #30
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WSArabians    
    So it is... I wonder if it'll work this way..
    I skimmed through some of the posts, but I was going to say, I had heard a lot of problems with foals being born with missing eyes or limbs as being the biggest issue. The barn I boarded(big dressage facility)had 5 foals born without eyes, 1 was missing a full lower jaw. Every single one of those broodmares had received the wnv and none of the broodmares had had any problem before that point.
    I believe in vaccines, but I feel this one was a particular bad one, and I don't think they did enough studies and confirmed data before releasing it.
         

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