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West Nile Vaccine in Breeding Stock (Graphic Warning)

7K views 30 replies 21 participants last post by  Dreamcatcher Arabians 
#1 ·
When the big scare first came out, I wasn't breeding so thankfully I did not have to worry about any of this, and became aware of it without having to add a story of my own.
Anyhow, I came across this website and it got me thinking. Has anyone else had adverse effects of the WNV?
The only vaccine I refuse to give anymore (aside from WMV and Strangles - I've seen horses that were clear develop the disease after this shot was given) is the 5,7,9 Pneumabort vaccine as the one mare I gave that too aborted at ten months. Everyone else had healthy foals.

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What are your concerns and experiances with any type of vaccines?



am a small breeder, I have a fine old stallion and 9 broodmares, and I am a retired Vet Tech. I gave theWN as everyone did due to the scare and potential death of my horses. They are all pets, not just breedingstock. I bred 39 mares total in 2002, I have had to rebreed 14 outside mares, and some did not comeback.Most were absorbed their vets told them, some born about 9 wks early and dead, then I began gettingcalls from friends all over the U.S., who were having foals lost prematurely, one thought the shuttle was thecause, some said they gave the 5,7,9 pnuemabort vax ,some didnt,.but I began to ask about the WN, all gaveit! I told them to call Ft. Dodge, as they also make the Pnuemabort vax and should be told about it. Somegot a response some didnt, they just got rude people on the other end. Now we are all breeders and most ofus know normal from not, some were suspicious, anyway, there I am sitting there thinking boy am I lucky!All my mares are good so far, I have several very old gals but they had foaled already, normal healthy babies.Then my little paint mare, young, healthy and lively, went into labor, a beautiful tobi stud colt was born, thenthe bag opened and he had a Rhino nose, the worst I had seen, he was adorable otherwise, we called himCourage, he was put to sleep within 24 hrs., he could not even be bottle fed, and shortly after my youngestmare 4 yr, healthy lively mare, came up thin, 9 wks early a blk/wht stud colt, never got out of the bag..Icalled my vet and took the fetus there, Called Ft. Dodge and spoke to the Vet there, I told him all that wenton, unfortunately we had buried Courage, but they paid for all tests done on my mare and the fetus. Thetests showed she had a bacteria in the foals lungs, and she had the same in her uterus.????????a streptype????? she was AI for breeding, and why would it take so long to get there???? 9 mo?? To all those *****ad these testimonies, keep calling Ft Dodge, get someone to call you back, get someone to test for you,scream, threaten with law suets, anything to get this all on record. Now my biggest scare is I redid boostersbefore the 2 foals were born on my older mares and my stallion, who had some semen problems this year! Ialso had a boarder come down with a unusual virus? this year, started like colic, then violent shaking allover, my vet said if it were a mare she would think copper loss, but with 10 liters of fluids and banamine by 5 am he was better.Strange also that 3 weeks later a friend had her gelding suffer from a similar illness, both vets were unable to say what it was, they almost had wn like symptoms but not quite, both got better, also I need to add that both geldings were not fed the same, not housed the same or anywhere near the same area, but both had been given the WN vax.Have I started a new worry for me for next year???
E. Cassell, TX
Photo above provided by owner.



I just found out about your website and must show you what was born to our quarter horse mare on May11, 2003. She is a proven producer bred to a proven paint. This foal had no nostrils and no eyeballs in hissockets. He did stand with great difficulty but was never able to nurse having no palate to suck against. Healso had great difficulty breathing. Our vet euthanized him at 6 hours. There was apparently something verywrong with his front legs also but the whole thing was so horrible I stopped taking pictures after he stood.The mare had definetly had both West Nile shots early in her pregnancy. Our vet could give no explanationfor his deformities stating he had never seen aything like it before. We could not get her back in foal afterthis but only tried once beacuse of the lateness of the season. She has been vaccinated this year but we willthink and watch carefully before we breed her again. We have another mare in foal that has been vaccinatedwe will watch very carefully. We have wondered why vaccine is available for horses so quickly and not forhumans. Are our horses being used as guinea pigs?? Thank you for developing this website so we can shareour tragedies and hopefully do something about it. We thought we were entirely alone with this.
Norene, Calif.



My Andalusian Mare foaled in March, the filly was born without front legs. She has had 5 previous births(she is 9 years old) She recieved the Vaccine at the end of her first 30 days of pregnancy, then two weeks later. Fort Dodge is now ignoring my calls and emails. My foal was sold and the price was 20,000.
Toni CA
Photo shown above provided by owner.
 
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#2 ·
The only vaccine I've ever had an issue with, and you wouldn't give it to a pregnant mare anyhow, is strangles. And I only had an issue with that with the injectable, I've never had a problem with the IN.

I've always given Rhino at 3, 5, 7, 9 months and never had a problem. I give WNV at 30 days pre-foaling, never a problem.

So, all I can say is, I feel like they're cheap insurance.
 
#3 ·
I do not give the Rhino at 3,5,7,9 but I do give the West Nile vaccine at 30 days prior to foaling just as I give all the other annual shots to ensure the mare passes on the immunity to the foal.
Dreamcatcher and I both live in West Nile central so the risk is worth the worry if you ask me. Shalom
 
#7 ·
Pictures dont work for me either-- if it messes up the foals like that i wonder what its really doing to the horses health that aint been used for breeding too! :shock: them vaccines are bad stuff!
 
#9 ·
We gave ours at 5,7, and 9. The issue we had was the stores around us were selling them over two years outdated and I refused to give an outdated shot to anything. Sadly and even after mentioning it we didn't come back until they got the updated ones. Honestly we've never had any problems giving the shots.
 
#11 ·
I have not heard any bad things about the vaccine. I did read about a mare passing the virus to her foal in utero resulting in a still birth. The mare died a few days later. I do know a few folks who have given the vaccine while their horse is experiencing symptoms of the virus which resulted in a mess, the horse lived but it was touch and go. I guess with vaccines you are sometimes dammed if you do and %^&& if you don't. A lot of the diseases are not worth monkeying around with. With this mares can abort if they get the vaccine or they can abort and die without the vaccine.
 
#30 ·
I skimmed through some of the posts, but I was going to say, I had heard a lot of problems with foals being born with missing eyes or limbs as being the biggest issue. The barn I boarded(big dressage facility)had 5 foals born without eyes, 1 was missing a full lower jaw. Every single one of those broodmares had received the wnv and none of the broodmares had had any problem before that point.
I believe in vaccines, but I feel this one was a particular bad one, and I dont think they did enough studies and confirmed data before releasing it.
 
#15 ·
Pictures aren't showing up.

but I gave pneumobort at 5,7 and 9 months. Also gave WN and the 5-in-1 30 days prior to foaling. (Maybe WN is in that, im not sure?)

this was my first foal, and i did what the vet recommended. Wrecker was born 100% normal and healthy.
 
#17 ·
When WNV first became a problem, I was not going to vaccinate. I took my mare in for a preg check, and 4 employees at the vet clinic asked me if I was going to vaccinate, and all, including the vet, said they had had NO reactions. Famous last words!! I vaccinated, and confirmed her in foal. The next day, she came in looking like she had Parkinsons...head shaking, walking like she was blind. Reacting to the vaccine. She lost that foal, and I could not get her settled at all that year.

I do not WNV vaccinate ANY pregnant mare now.

Nancy
 
#18 ·
All the supposed "WNV vaccine reactions" I've seen have more been due to mares receiving inadequate nutrition while pregnant.
Micronutrients such as selenium and copper play big roles in the healthy formation of foals..

As far as large, reputable breeders with a good broodmare feeding regime - I haven't heard a single complaint or warning about WNV vaccination. Nor from my vet who in his heyday was the largest repro vet for the race track breeders in the area...
 
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#20 ·
Our filly was born perfectly fine and healthy. The mare was given WN. Our vet we use for if/when we breed (the very rare occasion), suggests we vaccinate. And has never told us anything about reactions from the vaccines. And she does a lot of big TB farms in Ocala.
Never have had any issues with any of our horses and WNV.
But we also use intervet.... not fort dodge.
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#21 ·
Sorry, but I very rarely fall victim to any conspiracy theory hype. And the victim mentality is very rarely used by those who take responsibility for their actions...

I know of reputable breeders who have had terrible years (this year being one with the very finicky weather - out of 30 mares, I think 2 or 3 are pregnant) however all vaccinate properly and none have had adverse reaction such as limb deformities. However, the breeders I do know who have had limb deformities or other faults in foals outside of the norm, they have all not supplemented mares properly.

Blame the vaccine or look at your program. It's the same as anything in life, in order to be successful we must stay humble and be willing to accept that we may not be perfect, or have the perfect ideas.
 
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#22 ·
There are too many variables in each and every pregnancy to be able to tell with any certainty that something causes deformities.
 
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#24 ·
Alot of these stories I hard were from when they FIRST started the WN shot. So maybe the first batch was not as safe (should not been out of the experimental stage). My friend dose not vaccinate at all, she just uses garlic and her horse was fine as all the other horses in the area where getting sick. I might take a page out of her book.
 
#25 ·
I don't know alot about the vaccines in horses, but its the same story in humans with mothers not wanting to vaccinate their children for whopping cough (because they all jump on the band wagon uneducated) and then their toddler gives the whooping cough to a newborn and the newborn dies. People will blame whatever makes them not guilty for the problem.

There is no real way of knowing that the vaccine has caused the mares to abort, and you have no way of knowing that if you had not vaccinated whether the mare still would have aborted the foal or the foal was born with deformities.
 
#27 ·
I know the previous place I worked we didn't want to give the WNV due to stories we had heard. Last year there had been 3 cases right down the road from us. We considered it, but we ended up going spending time and money on bug control and we never had a problem. There are so many natural problems that can happen that we didn't want to worry about adding another problem by vaccinating.

I don't know alot about the vaccines in horses, but its the same story in humans with mothers not wanting to vaccinate their children for whopping cough (because they all jump on the band wagon uneducated) and then their toddler gives the whooping cough to a newborn and the newborn dies. People will blame whatever makes them not guilty for the problem.

There is no real way of knowing that the vaccine has caused the mares to abort, and you have no way of knowing that if you had not vaccinated whether the mare still would have aborted the foal or the foal was born with deformities.
I agree 100%! I personally ended up with Polio after my 2 year old booster shot. Things have changed to make sure vaccines are safe, but there is always a chance of side effects. You just have to think through the whole process and become educated.
 
#26 ·
Sometimes I think crap just happens. I bought a riding mare that came pregnant (which I didn't know when I bought her) and the foal was born with a leg deformity. The only vaccine the mare had (that I know of) was a yearly 4-way. Once I found out she was pregnant I was very careful to try to balance her diet per my vet's recommendations and she did get quality feed supplements. But she was 16 at the time and this was her 10th foal (the other 9 were born before I owned her).

So did I do something wrong? Was there something wrong with my hay or feed? Was her reproductive system past it's prime? Was it something that occured early in the foal's development before I bought the mare?

My personal theory was that the limb must have been mal-positioned while he developed. But I don't know that for a fact.

I dunno. I guess my point is that sometimes you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I remember when the West Nile vaccine first came out I knew someone who had a horse die and they said it was from the vaccine. I don't know for sure but it sure scared the heck out of me and I didn't give the vaccine for many years......until our vet said it was in our area and he was getting cases. Then I finally started giving west nile and all the horses were fine.

But this stuff CAN scare you. I feel so bad for those precious little babies.....they should have had a good life. :cry:
 
#28 ·
At the same time we don't live in a bubble. I know someone mentioned whooping cough and I think its worth mentioning. A lot of folks where I grew up did not and do not believe in vaccinating their children. A lot of which is because of a often cited and disproved paper that vaccine adjuvant causes Autism. Which means that kids can spread these diseases that like measles and whooping cough in particular to other children. The vaccinated kids are fine but the unvaccinated kids get really sick and sometimes die.

I think Autism is a good example. A lot of people jumped on the vaccines cause autism boat. The problem is that Autism (like foal defects) is a really complicated disorder with grades and severities that are not fully understood. It seems to me overly simplistic to say that an incredibly complicated disease or disorder is caused by a single event such as a vaccine. This is particularly true when you think about the approximately 8 years of testing most antibiotics and vaccines go through to determine safety. Thats double true of vaccines that are used in pregnant individuals. Now there may be merit in the fact that there is no human west nile vaccine, so I can believe arguments that the vaccine is not 100 percent effective; however, that it is a cause of limb deformities I have a harder time with.

There have been examples of medications that did cause birth defects (most notibly thalidomyde - a anti-nausa medication of the 50s). This medication caused limb stumping, to the point where a child could be delivered with a limb deformity and the doctor would know exactly when in the pregnancy its mother had taken the medication based on what limb was developing during that time. There is nothing indicated to that specificity with this vaccine.
 
#29 ·
30+ yrs ago, we had a colt born with a muzzle that looked like the foal in the first pic. That was way before WNV vaccines. I can't remember what the vet called the deformity. Colt died, couldn't suckle.

My mare who just foaled in May, had her boosters, except tetanus, vet said no tetanus while pregnant. Filly is perfectly formed.

Like someone said above, stuff happens. It's horrible, sad, but it happens
 
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