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What are the chances?

8K views 52 replies 19 participants last post by  nrhareiner 
#1 ·
I have a mare that's a soild paint. Both of her parents had more color then she did. Jody is her name, she is a light redish brown and a blond mane&tail. I had over about 3 year now and I love her, wish to her breed her. She has good bloodline from her parents and this stallion I want to breed her with looks like app. Because his white and red dappled, 15.2 hh, very pretty. He was good bloodline too, but the question here is. I don't want a soild paint, I want a mare with more then one color.
In Jody's life she has 7 foals all colored but her last one was brown. The Stallion his Sire was black,brown and white and his dam was redish brown and white.
So what are the chances I'll get a colored horse?:D
Anything please&thanks.
 
#2 ·
First off, if you breed her to an app you will be producing an un-registerable foal.

You have a 50% chance for a colored foal or not if the stallion is heterozygous for spots. Since your mare is solid it doesn't matter that both of her parents had color, because she doesnt.

Tobiano is a dominant gene so if the horse carries a copy, it will have spots.
 
#21 ·
Best answer here!

If you want a specific color and gender then buy a foal. Then you are guaranteed to get the color and gender you want.

Just to point out you don't nead to know about colours and genetics to be able to look after a foal.
No, I suppose you do not need to. But there is this little thing called being responsible. Why would someone who does not even know the most basics about horse colors be trying to breed their horse? Even more so, why would they be trying to breed their horse for a specific color?

Just like everything else, anyone can reproduce (humans, dogs, cats, etc), not everyone should though.

The mare:She is a full paint, brown body. Her mane&tail is color based blond and red in it. (I have a photo of her in my profile).
Serious question, did you post this to be silly or do you truly not know what color your mare is?

I looked at the photo and brown is not the word I would pick for your mare.

Unless the photo is bad she looks very chestnut/sorrel to me.
 
#5 ·
In the absolute politest way possible, if you cannot even name a basic horse color, do you really think you should be breeding and raising a foal? Your post confused the heck out of me before I figured out that "solid" meant she's only one color.

I assume you're hoping for a bay pinto colored foal so that it will have black, mahogany and white, unlike a black pinto colored foal which would only have black and white, yes?

Based on your very "loose" descriptions, your mare sounds flaxen chestnut and the stallion sounds like a form of chestnut. In which case, chestnut is the only potential option.

As a note, if they're both pintos, I sincerely hope they've been tested for frame overo. In homozygous form, this gene causes lethal white overo which is a guaranteed death sentence for a foal.
 
#6 ·
Oh my gosh, I made a spelling mistake so I can't raise a foal! Go to my profile to look at a photo of my mare. Look before pointing things, please.

I broke a horse before, so I pretty sure raising a foal is okay for me. I been around horses all my life. I'm not good at the english lanuage...

No the stallion is not a pinto.:D
 
#7 ·
It had nothing to do with the English language. You just described several horses and you can't even tell us what color they were. "Reddish" is not an equine color.

Can you please make up your mind? First he's an Appy, then he's a full Paint and now he's not a pinto.

I stand by my commentary.
 
#10 ·
That is incorrect. What if the mare has that genetic disorder that is in QHs? If she is a paint, then she is part QH and can have it.

What if the mare carries frame? Unlike what a PP said, a horse can have a white pattern genetically but express it minimally. Being a 'solid' paint, she could carry frame, what if the stallion carries it too?

Also, if he is a coloured Paint (as in has large splotches of white and another colour) then he is a pinto also.

Knowing genetics and colours is not needed to breed a foal. If you want to make a horse that is destined for a dog food can. Leave breeding to those who have the knowledge. Just because you have broken a horse in means nothing.
 
#13 ·
If I were you, I would do some genetics testing on your mare...it is the best way to come up with what the possibility are for her as in throwing a color foal. I would also keep an eye on the genetics of the stud used... you want one that is homozygous for the coloring you want to really get what you want. I really suggest you do a LOT of research on genetics where it comes to colors so that you make the best choice.
 
#14 ·
Your description of both horses, also confuses me. I'm thinking your mare is a chestnut with flaxen mane and tail, but is actually a paint due to background and maybe some markings. I have absolutely no idea what colour the stallion is, from your description.

Why don't you post full body pictures of your mare here and also that of the stallion. If your mare has always produced loud coloured foals in the past, it could have been that the stallion/s were homozygous for tobiano/pinto and were known for producing lots of colour.

Have you colour tested your mare? That would be a good start. Also, if she is indeed a paint, and even if solid, you should test her for frame at the same time. Is the stallion colour tested? If so, what were the results.

You might want to join the Equine Color Info forum too. There you will be able to learn a great deal about colour genetics.

Another question would be, why have you chosen this particular stallion for your mare? Have you already seen what he has produced, since I suspect you are breeding for colour alone.

Lizzie
 
#15 ·
This is my opinion and my opinion only but I think y'all have been a little harsh on this person based on this post. I know quite a few ppl out there that have immense knowledge about breeding safely and responsibly but really have no concept or care about color/genetics.

On the other hand I think that if someone is breeding for color ONLY and not taking other characteristics of the horse such as conformation or temperment then they are not being responsible breeders.

JMHO.
ttfn.
 
#16 ·
OP stated that they are breeding for colour. Also, the horses that they want to breed together both sound like they are possible frame carriers, which must be tested for before s/he breeds them. And being Paints, I can only assume that there is a chance there is some HYPP possibility there too.

The OP needs to know these things, and saying that there are plenty of good breeders that have no knowledge of genetics is wrong. They may not know that X colour crossed with Y colour gives Z colour - but any responsible breeder knows the genetic history of their horse.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Nobody is expecting a breeder how to write out an extension or know off the top of their head what colors you can get from breeding buckskin to grey tobiano.

You can tell a great deal about someone simply by the knowledge they have. If you have been around horses any amount of time, you pick up basic things like the difference between chestnut and bay, a filly and a mare or an English saddle from a Western saddle. Someone who is unable to name even basic horse colors is someone who either hasn't spent a lick of time around anyone educated, or someone who has and just couldn't be bothered to learn. Either way, it isn't a great formula for a potential breeder.

I don't think anyone here was "harsh" - if anything, the immediate defensiveness of the OP can tell you even more about her character and openness to learning anything new. Sometimes the people being "harsh" are just the ones who are really good at reading between the lines and taking more from a post or personality then just general spelling errors.

In the end, breeding stock horses is one of the most dangerous when it comes to genetics. The mixing over the years has resulted in most Appaloosa and Paint lines carrying all those Quarter Horse genetic diseases. They've also become spectacular at hiding frame overo, to the point where I would never even CONSIDER breeding a stock horse without testing - I don't care HOW many generations of "solid" I see. Obviously the concerns lay with all breeds, but people tend to forget that Paint horses are JUST as prone to HYPP, HERDA, LWO, etc. as Quarter Horses.
 
#18 ·
Know what, forget it. I was just wondering what the possibles were. I have 3 horses, I know how to care for them. Would you really think, I would get a animal I won't know how to care for?

The mare:She is a full paint, brown body. Her mane&tail is color based blond and red in it. (I have a photo of her in my profile).

Stallion: He is white based, red dapple coat. His also full paint, his mane&tail is red.
 
#23 ·
Know what, forget it. I was just wondering what the possibles were. I have 3 horses, I know how to care for them. Would you really think, I would get a animal I won't know how to care for?


This has nothing to do with breeding. That is what people are trying to tell you. I now a lot of people who are very good at caring for a horse but should never breed.


The mare:She is a full paint, brown body. Her mane&tail is color based blond and red in it. (I have a photo of her in my profile).

This makes no seance.

Stallion: He is white based, red dapple coat. His also full paint, his mane&tail is red.
There is no such thing as a white based horse. They are either Red based or Black based. Everything past that are modifiers. Even a ALL white horse are not actually white. They are just expressing a paint pattern in is max form
 
#19 ·
Knowing how to care for a horse does not mean you have the knowledge to breed. There are thousands of unwanted horses needing homes, why not save one of those instead of adding to the issue when you have no business doing so?
 
#24 ·
Knowing how to care for a horse does not mean you have the knowledge to breed. There are thousands of unwanted horses needing homes, why not save one of those instead of adding to the issue when you have no business doing so?
This is a VERY good point and one that was brought up over in a Horse Slaughter thread...which is why I asked you what you were planning on doing with the foal -- keeping, selling, etc? I think if you want to raise a foal and are knowledgeable enough to, then rescue one. My mare was one of 50 who were rescued from a backyard breeder who got in over her head and they were being neglected/starved because of it. There were a HANDFUL of foals on site that were rescued as well, my mare being the dam to 2 of them. If you want a foal, get a good trainer and go rescue one. There are too many unwanted horses in the world already.

And not to be mean because I don't mean it that way at all (although you'll probably take it that way anyway since many on here tend to), but...you really do sound like you don't have a lot of color knowledge. I'm no breeder and I've only been a part of the horse world for 4 years now and a horse owner for 2 years, but even I know my basic color knowledge (sorrel, palomino, bay, buckskin vs. dun, etc. etc.). So it does concern me that you aren't as well versed and are thinking of breeding.
 
#20 ·
Well the OP might quite well know how to care of a horse, but it's painfully obvious from this....

The mare:She is a full paint, brown body. Her mane&tail is color based blond and red in it. (I have a photo of her in my profile).

Stallion: He is white based, red dapple coat. His also full paint, his mane&tail is red.
....that she knows absolutely nothing about colour and probably shouldn't be breeding - at least not until she does some homework.

Lizzie
 
#25 ·
Knowing color of a horse DOESN'T mean I CAN'T for one!
Oh my gosh, does anyone here know what color based is? It's a artist word.
Color based=is the mean color!
My mare is sorrel, how do y'all know I'm not color BLIND, I could be and y'all just being rude.
Where I live you just can't find a go horse for sale, so I want to breed my mare before she gets to old. Both her and the stallion have good bloodline.
SO forget, I just wanted to know what the % was. I have a Aunt that went all over the USA to ride, she is great with horses. So I can get ask her.
So don't post again, if you don't think I can't care for a foal.
 
#28 ·
Knowing color of a horse DOESN'T mean I CAN'T for one!
Oh my gosh, does anyone here know what color based is? It's a artist word.
Color based=is the mean color!

I think most of the people here know what a color bass is. With the exception of what you have posted. IN HORSES not in the art world there is only 2 base colors. Again red and black. There are no other colors in horses that are base colors. ALL other colors Bay Dun pally ect are all either red or black based.


My mare is sorrel, how do y'all know I'm not color BLIND, I could be and y'all just being rude.

Never said you where color blinded. Everyone is just trying to understand what you are saying.


Where I live you just can't find a go horse for sale, so I want to breed my mare before she gets to old. Both her and the stallion have good bloodline.
SO forget, I just wanted to know what the % was. I have a Aunt that went all over the USA to ride, she is great with horses. So I can get ask her.
So don't post again, if you don't think I can't care for a foal.
That is all find and good. However if you are breeding for color it is the wrong reason to be breeding. Also if you want to know the chances of getting a certain color we NEED to know exactly what color the horses in question are and you have not provided that. So until you do people are going to keep questioning you.
 
#27 ·
Thank you.
Sorry everyone, I just hate when someone says I can't raise something when I truly can. Sorry.

I really won't be breeding, someone would bring the stallion over to my place or the mare over there. Well she is pregnant my Aunt would help me through it. Like I said, ''she great with horses, she bred them rode and care for them.'' So before someone saying I can't I need a reason why not.
I wanted to breed not just the color but some rare color are worth a like in a horse. I wanted to breed for many reasons.
 
#30 ·
And here is some interesting information about your mare's color, from what we can all tell from the 1 photo on your profile anyway...

Sorrel (horse)

From Wikipedia


A Chestnut or "Sorrel" horse


Sorrel is an alternative word for one of the most common equine coat colors in horses. While the term is usually used to refer to a copper-red shade of chestnut, in some places it is used generically in place of "chestnut" to refer to any reddish horse with a same-color or lighter mane and tail, ranging from reddish-gold to a deep burgundy or chocolate shade. The term probably comes from the color of the flower spike of the sorrel herb.
The term "chestnut" is the more common term used to describe horses of a reddish-brown color. Chestnut is more often used to describe this color in England and on the east coast of the USA, while the term "sorrel" is more common in the Western United States. Some horse enthusiasts insist that chestnut and sorrel are two distinct colorations, but there is no known genetic difference between the two and no clear consensus on what the distinction is. Some argue that "sorrel" should be used to describe only lighter shades, or shades with a very clear reddish tint, while "chestnut" denotes darker shades or shades with more brown in them. The American Quarter Horse Association, which uses both terms, describes a sorrel as a type of copper-red chestnut, but allows that chestnut is also a correct term.
In terms of equine coat color genetics there is no difference at all. Solid reddish-brown color is a base color of horses, caused by the recessive "e" gene.
Sorrel or chestnut coloration can be distinguished from dun by the fact that a dun horse has a gene that causes slightly washed-out yellowish color, with a darker mane and tail than the rest of its coat, may have areas of darker color on the shoulder and forelegs, and also possesses a narrow, dark line down the middle of the back.
A sorrel and a bay, especially a "blood bay," may be confused with one another. However, all bays have "black points" - a black mane, tail and lower legs. Light-colored sorrels, sometimes called "blond sorrels," especially if they have flaxen manes and tails, may resemble a palomino. However, true palomino coloration is the result of a horse's being heterozygous for the cream dilution gene.

A Quarter Horse registered as "sorrel"
 
#31 ·
OH lordie.
I'm not breeding for COLOR! I said many time why I'm breeding, I'm not saying it again so sorry if you can't read that. Again, my mare is sorrel! I'm very sick of saying the same thing over and over.
http://falcondsn.com/OldLion7k.jpg
The stallion looks like only with red mane&tail and he has more spots and the spots are tiny. So it's close to a red dapple.

Say AGAIN, forget about the whole thing. since I'm not getting anything....
 
#32 ·
For the record, you have not said anything like that over and over again.

You said your horse was brown more times than you have said her horse was sorrel. You did not come up with sorrel until after it was pointed out to you by a few of us.

And you have only said once anything about breeding for color and you said more that it is not the only reason you want to breed, but also said something about unique rare colors that I did really understand.

It seems like what you think you are ranting at us is not what you are really saying.


I do find it hard to believe that you live in an area that you can not buy a colored foal that meets your color and breed requirements but there is an easily accessible stallion that does.
 
#33 ·
For the record, you have not said anything like that over and over again.

You said your horse was brown more times than you have said her horse was sorrel. You did not come up with sorrel until after it was pointed out to you by a few of us.

And you have only said once anything about breeding for color and you said more that it is not the only reason you want to breed, but also said something about unique rare colors that I did really understand.

It seems like what you think you are ranting at us is not what you are really saying.


I do find it hard to believe that you live in an area that you can not buy a colored foal that meets your color and breed requirements but there is an easily accessible stallion that does.
I said many things time after time. One is the breeding thing, people kept saying you shouldn't breed for color. I'm not!
I'm breeding for many things beside color. All I wanted to know what the possiables were of getting a colored foal was.. But no...
I look for a foal many times that didn't met the things I needed.
1.Color
2.healthy
3.friendly to other animals beside horses
4.human friendly
6.Not to much money
But I can't find of through reasons, I find a horse that was very pretty but it was 10000. I don't have that money and the horse was blind in one eye and wasn't friendly toward anyone or any other animals. Is that to much to ask for? That's another reason I'm breeding so I can train my own foal.
 
#39 ·
Is it safe to assume then that you are COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that being Paints, they could both be carrying frame overo and therefore give birth to a lethal white foal? A lethal white foal is born without a developed digestive tract, and if you do not put it to sleep within a couple days, it will die an excruciating death as it's system backs up and poisons it to death.

What about HYPP? Have they been tested? Do you look forward to a foal that has seizures all it's life?

What about HERDA? Have they been tested? Do you want a foal you can't touch because it's skin will tear from it's body?

Anyone who can't be bothered to research the BASIC genetics, diseases and complications of breeding horses is as irresponsible as it gets in my opinion. I don't care if you THINK you can raise a foal, if you can't even give a damn that it may die a horrific terrible death from a completely PREVENTABLE genetic disease, then no, you should NOT be breeding and you have no right to raise a foal - regardless of how many states your aunt has ridden in.

 
#40 · (Edited)
Now, now Macabre, none of that is important. :?

After all, the stallion breeding fee won't cost her anything because she knows the owner! Score!!!

Plus, if the mare goes into labor and has complications she'll die, since obviously there isn't a vet within a 500 mile radius, so there won't be any vet fees! Double score!!

The OP has no idea about genetics, how to feed and care for a pregnant mare, or any contingency plan in case there's a medical emergency. She also has no plans in place for what she plans to do with the foal if the mare manages to make it through her pregnancy and give birth to a live baby.

But heck, she knows someone who will give her free hay!!! Whoot!

Looks like she's totally set and ready to bring a foal into the world!

Yeah, NOT. :-x
 
#42 ·
Now, now Macabre, none of that is important. :?

After all, the stallion breeding fee won't cost her anything because she knows the owner! Score!!!

Plus, if the mare goes into labor and has complications she'll die, since obviously there isn't a vet within a 500 mile radius, so there won't be any vet fees! Double score!!

The OP has no idea about genetics, how to feed and care for a pregnant mare, or any contingency plan in case there's a medical emergency. She also has no plans in place for what she plans to do with the foal if the mare manages to make it through her pregnancy and give birth to a live baby.

But heck, she knows someone who will give her free hay!!! Whoot!

Looks like she's totally set and ready to bring a foal into the world!

Yeah, NOT. :-x
Oh my gosh, thanks!
There's a vet 50 miles away but the hours are jack up.
Oh I forgot to say the mare already had 7 foal in her life time, I only had her 3 years so don't point to me that's over breeding her.

@ Macabre: You might some damn reason! Here:
1. It's a good chance for a foal
2. Good bloodline, on both side the Sire and Dam.
3. I want a foal
4. I can't find any foal worth the money someone is wanting
5. I want a young horse
6. If I breed her, I need to do it before she to old
I'm not cross breeding both full paints.
 
#41 ·
lol SR I thought the same thing about the vet wouldn't get there on time..probably shouldn't breed your poor mare then...you have to understand that pregnancy is not without its dangers...you could potentially lose your horse and the foal.

And the bit about not finding a foal that's nice to animals...no guarantee your foal will meet that requirement either...and then what? Will you pay for and care for it anyway?
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#44 ·
The mare is Jody in my profile, sorry don't have a photo of the stallion.
They only have so much land, they have 2 stallion, so they can't put the stallion in with the mares because most of they are his sister or something. And they can't have any more horses. So they wish to Geld him.
You mean a the paper where they take blood to see for diseases? The stallion does my mare's paper won't out last years. But I'm pretty 80% she good.

The Dam's bloodline is, her grandfather was a famous race horse. The mare was a famous barrel racer.
The stallion: his sire was the state champ, he had good cutting horses in the day.

I wish to the foal for well that still if-y. My mare is a barrel racer and I'm teaching her to be a jumper. So I'm still thinking, probably western or jumping..
 
#45 ·
I mean, has a vet tested both horses to be 100% (not 80%) okay to breed without passing on diseases or conditions that will kill your foal?

Because it's extremely important that you do that before you breed. It's hard to hear when you really want a foal, but in all honesty, breeding is not something where you can cross your fingers and wait and see.

To maximize the possibility of both mare and foal surviving, research before breeding is essential.

For bloodlines, I was wondering if you could tell us names. Some lines, such as Impressive, are infamous for HYPP, as mentioned before. If either horse has such lines, it's important to test for HYPP and be 100% sure (again, not 80%) that they are completely negative.

Speaking of which, are both horses registered?

If you don't even know why you want the foal yourself, maybe you should take the time to think about that before proceeding? If there's not a reason to produce another horse, then you really shouldn't.

I hope, for both your horses and your own sake, you think this through before acting.
 
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