We might be breeding my mare in the future who has had many foals with her previous owners. She is a registered sorrel quarter horse with great bloodlines and she is beautiful! She is turning 15 next year and due to previous injuries she can only be lightly ridden at a walk and trot. We had her checked out for the vet and she actually recommended to use her as a broodmare. So the question is: Is there any possible way to get a buckskin foal out of a sorrel mare? If not, what about a palomino? Thanks
To produce your best chance of buckskin, she should be bred to a perlino. Breeding to a perlino guarantees a buckskin, palomino or smoky black foal, with buckskin being the highest percentage of the option. Breeding to a double cream (perlino, cremello or smoky cream) guarantees a dilute foal. Depending on whether she or the stud throw agouti, it can be a toss up between a palomino and a buckskin (smoky black is a lot less likely, just as buckskin would have better chances if the mare also carries agouti).
You could also have a chance at a buckskin by breeding her TO a buckskin, but this is a lot less of a guarantee - then you have the option of buckskin, palomino, smoky black, bay, chestnut or black.
Obviously though, color should be the last thing you're breeding for. Perlino is a somewhat "rare" color, you definately don't see it as commonly as the others, and I think it would be a crying shame to sacrifice conformation just to get a colored foal.
It means they guarantee that the foal will be born a specific color/color(s)---most likely offer a refund or a breed back if you don't get whatever color(s) they guarantee-- but since he is double dilute they can be pretty confident what colors he will sire.
Private Treaty means that they negotiate each breeding fee individually with the mare owner, usually pricing the breeding according to how much they like the mare, and/or how likely a foal from the mare will make their stallion look good-- for example if the mare is a champion or champion producer, if the mare owners have a history of showing and promoting the foals they raise, etc.
I would like to see a conformation photo of this stallion, and more about his foals. I looked at the website for him -- Our Stallion
and I am confused about what they are stating he "is" genetically-- they state he is homozygous for AA, EE, cream and DD-- yet they also say he has sired palomino, dunalino, and grulla foals (and some of the foal photos they are calling dun look like regular buckskin to me)-- if he has sired palomino and dunalino foals he cannot be homozygous EE, if he has sired grulla foals he cannot be homozygous AA, and if he has sired palominos and buckskins who do not have dun factor he cannot be homozygous DD.
Their website also mentions alot of foals sold without papers-- not sure why that would be something you would mention on your website like it was a GOOD thing?
I dunno-- this one just has my radar up. He might be a nice horse and his owners are just getting into the swing of things, and/or were given bad/inaccurate information, etc-- but IMO be sure to see him and his offspring in person or thru good photos and videos, and also request a breeding contract and go over it very carefully-- if at all possible find mare owners who have bred their mares to him and see what their experience has been.(All of the above is a good idea no matter what stallion you are breeding to IMO.)
To get a buckskin from a sorrel, I won't even pretend to know the answer to that. But, to get a palomino from a sorrel, breed to a cremello, and the only color you could get would be a palomino.
Please excuse my ignorance. I have always read (in english horse books) that a dun is a light brown/cream coat with dark points. Later on in life I came across the term Buckskin which sounded like another term for dun. I thought that buckskin is the American term and dun is the English term for the same colouring. Could someone clarify the colour differences for me please.
Taken from the International Buckskin Horse Association:
"A true colored buckskin should be the color of tanned deerhide with black points. Shades may vary from yellow to dark gold. Points (mane, tail, legs) can be dark brown or black. Buckskin is clean of any smuttiness. Guard hairs which are buckskin colored grow through the body coat up over the base of the mane and tail."
"Dun is an intense color with a hide that has an abundance of pigment in the hairs. The dun color is a duller shade than buckskin and may have a smutty appearance. Most dun horses have dark points of brown or black. Dun horses sport the "dun factor" points which include dorsal and shoulder stripes, leg barring, etc."
Definitely two different colors. A dun can have sootiness, whereas a buckskin is a clear coat. My guy in the avatar is a dun, even thought at first glance he looks like a buckskin. He has shading on his shoulder, forehead and has leg barring - a buckskin shouldn't have that.
Some say that a dorsal stripe = a dun. No stripe = buckskin. However, some buckskins can have a dun stripe, it will just be very clearly defined with no sootiness on the outside if clipped.
Dun and buckskin are genetically different. Dun is a seperate gene then "cream" which causes your palominos (chestnut with cream), buckskins (bay with cream), smoky blacks (black with cream) and double dilutes such as cremello (chestnut), perlino (bay) and smoky cream (black).
Dun is a gene that can affect ANY color - in fact, genetically, you can have a buckskin dun (a lot of people call them "dunskins"). Dun is a "primitive" gene that will always cause zebrea striping on the legs and a dorsel stripe. It really has very little to do with actual color, because dun and cream can both affect ANY color. The tell is in the markings, and from past lineage.
As a note, sooty can affect ANY horse. So while your standards bay duns (the ones that look like buckskins) are usually softer and somewhat sooty in appearance, sooty can affect buckskin just as easily and make them look "dun". Your best tell is in the zebra striping and checking past lineage.
I found this gorgeous grulla stud who is actually a performance horse. He is homozygous for dun so would that most likely be a red dun out of a sorrel?
His stud fee is $850. And he's a lot better looking and more accomplished then the perlino stud.
Your chances would pretty much be 50/50 for a grulla or a red dun, with bay dun also being a possibility if your mare carries agouti. However, the dun is by no means guaranteed - you're almost just as likely to get another sorrel foal depending on the zygosity of the genetics on the pair.
I would love a sabino Arabian - I think they are gorgeous. I've planned for awhile to breed my mare to Khartoon Khlassic. Am I doing it because he's sabino? No. I'm doing it because I love the way he is built. The sabino is a bonus, even though I'm aware she may not throw a sabino foal. If Khartoon Khlassic died, would I breed to his accomplished son Pikhasso? Probably not - I am not fond of the way he's built even though he has sabino.
We all have colors we'd love to have, but buying is the only way to get those colors in a good looking foal. We all love unique colors, but breeding is a crapshoot at best. My chestnut mare comes from many lines of bays and blacks, her dam was bay and her sire was black and oh, lookie, another dang chestnut! That's the way it is though - you simply cannot breed for color. If you manage to find a good stud with a color you like, it's an ok risk, but never a guarantee. But how good is the fun colored baby going to be when it doesn't have the conformation to do anything but sit in a pasture?
I totally agree with you and I'm not exactly looking for color but a good conformation horse that can perform. I just came across the perlino because I was looking to see if there were any because they are rare. I came across the grulla when I was looking at studs of all colors, and he works cows which is what I am looking to do, and he happened to have beautiful coloring, too.
I would try a palimino stallion with a buckskin mare.I have a friend (aunt) that is a judge in full size and miniature horses and i'll try to get a hold of her and see what she thinks. But i think your better off just buying one.
I also agree that buying a buckskin would be a heck of a lot easier but again, I am not breeding for a buckskin, I was only curious to see if there was any good studs that would make a buckskin foal, which there isn't, because I do love the color. I am looking for the foal to be a good cow horse and possibly a new color to ad to the herd. My mare that I mentioned is just a light riding horse and doesn't do much and has produced gorgeous foals before so I thought it would be an extremely fun and educational experience. Please no more comments about just breeding for color, because I'm not. What do you guys think of the grulla stud?
FIRST on the Grullo. HERDA. there is no mention of it and his dams sire is a known carrier if memory serves correctly.
Also I have looked at him before when someone posted him. Although he dose have some accomplishments it is only in foundation QH. To me that is like playing in a limited sandbox where only certain kids can play and he is not even the best there. I comend then for training and getting him out and doing something but come one lets play with the big boys if you are going to ask that type of stud fee. There are quite a few well proven stallions standing for that or less.
Over all if you are breeding for color you can do worse but to me I would look for a better stallion and do not let color factor in. Also if you want a good and I mean really good nice stallion who will give you a very good chance of color I would sugest Hollywood White. If you are looking for a performance stallion you will not find much better.
I suspect Hollywood White is Ee Aa CRCR as he has thrown all single dilute creams and were he homozygous for black or agouti he would have done that.
So with the OP's mare being ee for sure but we have no idea on the agouti all we can guess right now is that with that breeding she could have Palomino, Buckskin, or Smokey Black.
Correct however she would be using a stallion who has A LOT more going for him but color. Hollywood White has an out standing pedigree. His is put together very well and has an out standing performance and sire record. This breeding to get a certain color just dose not sit well with me. If you want a buckskin go buy one. If you want a quality foal then start with a quality mare and pick a quality stallion and get this crap about color out of your head.
Oh no I complete agree with you, he is the nicest stallion she'd be able to breed to have the possibility of a buckskin bred for what she wants. I'm just saying genetically him being a perlino doesn't guarantee a buckskin, and that was her initial question so I was just answering that. I don't she could go better than Hollywood White.
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