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You knowledgable lot...

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    11-01-2009, 02:03 PM
  #1
Foal
You knowledgable lot...

I need your brains for a bit.
No not a Halloween pun (happy belated Halloween by the way) but I'm serious.

As most of you know I have Haruko back, she's improving everyday and actually has somewhat a normal back and she's getting stronger and stronger.
I've always wanted to breed from her.
Every since she was officially mine, her bloodlines are amazing, nothing in her lines but pure. Not line-bred which is rare for the common Welsh (she's hardly common though).

Basically what I'm getting at is, I need some advice as too what to do.
I've heard with surrogates they take a lot from the surrogate mare, I don't want that.
I want a foal that's all Haruko, not some mare I don't know.
Is it safe to breed her, I want everything to go as natural as possible, which means no AI if possible.
All the mares I've known to have AI has absorbed the foal, I don't want to spend thousands just for her to lose it.

She's 15, some people tell me that's too old to foal but then a friend who worked at a well known stud up the road said she should be fine.
Her conformation is amazing, her lines have nothing but success in the showing world and she's got an amazing temperament.
The foal would be with me for life, but I'm not breeding for an all rounder, I want to breed for a jumping pony/horse.
Now, this is where I'm stuck. The good showjumpers are either 14.2hh or 16.2hh.
She's 12.1hh, she's also a good show jumper (we have a few issues in the ring but that's down to training)
She wasn't back until she was 11, which lead to a few problems in the bucking department. For the simple fact everytime the previous owner got on her she'd come off then put her back out in the field, thus she got away with it.

Sounds like a sham right?
But, I just thought I'd ask your opinion on it since you guys know a lot more than me.
A hell of a lot more.
     
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    11-01-2009, 02:18 PM
  #2
Weanling
I don't know anything about the surrogates, who to breed her to, etc... but I just wanted to say that my mom ran a stud farm for years and I grew up around breeding. Two things you should know, A) if she is healthy 15 isn't too old to have a foal at all! We bred a mare at 21 when she was in good health and the foal was fine. B) AI isn't usually unsuccessful, but of course age of the mare *does* play a factor. If you do AI correctly (with ultra sounds testing for the folical so they put the semen in at just the right time) it's just as reliable as live cover. Live cover scares me if I don't know the stallion IN AND OUT because a lot of stallions can injure mares, and mares can get frightened and injure themselves. I would watch a live cover by the stallion you want to breed to, to see how the handlers do their job, before you breed her live- if you end up doing that...
     
    11-01-2009, 03:23 PM
  #3
Foal
Ooh, thank you =]
She fairly healthy, after the incident with her lonees she's not in the best state at the moment, but she will be by next spring.
It's odd, 3 mares I know have had AI and on all 3 it's failed.
Weird.
They were all sent to one of the best stud farms in the country as well.
I don't know, it's just kinda put me off in case I pay all the money and then there's no foal by the end of it.
It's good to know she's not too old though =]
     
    11-01-2009, 04:40 PM
  #4
Banned
Your post is confusing.

A surrogate does nothing to the foal other than carry it to term. Nothing more nothing less.

A surrogate is not natural so I wonder just what you are referring to as surrogate. A surrogate is a mare that carries a fertalized egg from the dam and sire to term in her body.

Live cover usually carries the best fertilization expectations but there are risks. A1 is a good alternative but can be problomatic depending of age of the mare, healthyness of the uterus and certain problems with extender allergies.

Fresh can be a alternative if you don't wish live but feel A1 will not be viable.

As far as stallion choice you will have to do your research on bloodlines and find out which stud offers the breeding choice you have decided on.
     
    11-01-2009, 06:47 PM
  #5
Trained
I have to agree with the above poster. Your post was a bit rambling.

First a surrogate or better known as an ET. Is just as was stated above. I have done ET and own ETs. I have/known full siblings one being an ET and the other not. There is no noticeable difference in any way between the 2.

As for picking a stallion that is not my breed so I am not even going to start to suggest stallions.

AS for AI. That is the only way I do any breeding. I stand stallions both mine and out side stallions and ship semen quite a bit. Also every mare here is AIed and I have no problems getting or keeping mares in foal. You just have to do your homework and leg work no matter which you do. If a mare need rega mate it will not matter how she was bred the problem is still there.
     
    11-01-2009, 06:59 PM
  #6
Foal
I don't know, 3 different mares being put in foal by AI and none of them taking just seems a bit weird to me.
I plan on getting everything checked in my mare before anything is done.

Last time the vet came out she said the foal takes something from the mare.
I first thought, 'WTH, that's like breeding 3 horses..no possible' It's still confusing me now.
Then the woman who used to work a stud said the same thing.
So now, I'm filled with the foal takes characteristics from the surrogate.
I have absolutely no idea what happens, all I know is, 3 totally different absorbed their foals, one was a week away form the second to last check I think and it was gone, no heartbeat, nothing.

I'm quite set on a stallion from Germany. All of their pony stallion are exceptional so I'll be picking one of them out I think.
     
    11-01-2009, 07:09 PM
  #7
Trained
If the 3 mares where at the same location or even in the same area there could be unrelated caused not based in the AI breeding. It could be in the feed water air. They might not have had the needed vaccines. There are so many reasons why mares will not take or loose a foal in the first 90 day or so.

As for what a foal gets from the mare. Yes there are certain X related trates that come from a mare that they do not get from the stallion this is why having a good bottom side and tail line when breeding is very important. However that is from the doner mare not the recypiant mare.

The recypiant mare has no genetic influance over the foal. There has been shown that there is very little to no enviromental influance from the recypiant mare either.

If you are worried about doing AI then get a full vet check on your mare. Keep a close eye on the envornment around her. Keep her vaccines up dated. Keep an eye on her pegesterone leves. You will find you should have a good success rate.
     
    11-01-2009, 07:21 PM
  #8
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
If the 3 mares where at the same location or even in the same area there could be unrelated caused not based in the AI breeding. It could be in the feed water air. They might not have had the needed vaccines. There are so many reasons why mares will not take or loose a foal in the first 90 day or so.

As for what a foal gets from the mare. Yes there are certain X related trates that come from a mare that they do not get from the stallion this is why having a good bottom side and tail line when breeding is very important. However that is from the doner mare not the recypiant mare.

The recypiant mare has no genetic influance over the foal. There has been shown that there is very little to no enviromental influance from the recypiant mare either.

If you are worried about doing AI then get a full vet check on your mare. Keep a close eye on the envornment around her. Keep her vaccines up dated. Keep an eye on her pegesterone leves. You will find you should have a good success rate.

If I heard that there was an unusually high rate of the unexpected comming from one location I would be examining their practices very closely. Not every breeding farm or place have the same set of standard of practices.

Having dealt with the OP on another thread I would suggest you just let her believe whatever her source is. My information is for the readers that may get the wrong impression about surrogates.
     
    11-01-2009, 07:24 PM
  #9
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoi Miku    
Last time the vet came out she said the foal takes something from the mare.
I first thought, 'WTH, that's like breeding 3 horses..no possible' It's still confusing me now.
Then the woman who used to work a stud said the same thing.
.

They are both wrong and you should find a new vet because yours is an idiot.
     
    11-01-2009, 07:39 PM
  #10
Foal
All 3 mares were in different places.
The first was at my yard, of which I had nothing to do with her since I didn't own her.
The second went to the actual practice from where she was having everything done.
The third made it to the 75 day (I'm sure it was 75 days) then lost it, she was at our riders yard.
I'll definitely get all the necessary tests done, keep check on what's happening etc;
I originally wanted to use a surrogate because I value the mare I'm breeding from and I didn't want anything to happen to her. I think that's how it all kicked off with "The foal takes traits from the surrogate" discussion. Major brain ache after that talk, I always thought "But if it takes traits from the surrogate, why are they having 2 more egg transplants from Headley Britannia..?"

Spyder, I know nothing about surrogate mares. If you just come onto this thread to spout then make a thread about surrogates to promote them. I've never come across one and I've never known anyone who's used them without minimal contact, thus knowing nothing about them. I doubt many people will read this so if you want to 'inform' people about it then make a website or something.

Kevin, good point.
The vet that came out that day was one from the local practice *note to self: will never use them again* our normal vet is the GB eventing team official vet, she's the one who'll be running the tests and checking my mare over before anything happens.
     

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