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Young Stallions

This is a discussion on Young Stallions within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        01-30-2012, 10:13 AM
      #11
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    If I was going to start a breeding operation, I would buy the best mare money could find in my chosen breed. Then I would advance her career in my chosen discipline. Once she has proven that she has merit of her own, I would put her to the best stud I could afford. Then rinse and repeat with her offspring.

    I personally don't think I would ever buy a stud. In this day and age, you can ship semen from virtually anywhere. If I did have a stud, I will have bred him myself, and he would be my "poster boy" to show what my stud was all about. I am a firm believer in a strong mare band.

    However, this is just me personally. And I am no where near owning any horses at the moment, let alone my dream mare. If I had one, and was looking at a young stud, I would want him to have absolutely excelled as a youngster in in-hand classes, and to have well recognised, amazing bloodlines.
    I agree. People tend to do things backwards and put the cart before the horse. If you are starting a breeding operation, you should, after a lot of research, first determine the product you want to produce, then assemble suitable broodmares, then select a complimentary stallion, or use a suitable outside stallion.

    Put otherwise, you should build your breeding program around your broodmares, not build a program around a stallion...you have virtually any proven stallion in the country to choose from...
    waresbear and sierrams1123 like this.
         
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        01-30-2012, 06:40 PM
      #12
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MyLittlePonies    
    Like should I even think about using an unproven stud for breeding when I start up my breeding program? Or should I stick to the BIG leagues?
    This is real simple. NO. Not to start out with. Go and figure out what you want to do what event. At what level. Then go and find a good mare. Best you can buy. Then breed her to the best stallion that compliments her that you can afford. That is how you start out. Once you get a bit of a track record and your mares start to prove themselves then you might take a chance. I know I am doing that this year but my mares is quite well proven. The stallion is very well bred it finished has a small amount of earnings but is not what I would consider proven. He is in an established training program and will be shown this year so I am going to take a chance. Would I have done that a few years ago? NO. Would I use him on an unproven mare? NO.
    waresbear likes this.
         
        01-31-2012, 02:55 AM
      #13
    Started
    How do you start a stud on the breeding program? Sorry, don't mean to high jack. My boy won't be even available for breeding until he's 2 or 3 depending on vet recommendations of course. I wouldn't know where to start. He'll have a show career for inhand work well under way by then but I plan on phantom breeding him. How do you get him out there on the market to start being a proven stud? I can't imagine charging anything more than a collections fee. I have no plans of breeding him to my mares since if anything happened to them I'd be heart broken. I do plan on studding him out, continuing his show career and promoting him as a stud only available to a very very select few mares. How do you even start on that though? Granted I have a couple years to plan ahead of course.
         
        01-31-2012, 03:10 AM
      #14
    Trained
    Show him. A lot. Get his name out there as a winner in his discipline. Then show him some more. If you will only offer him to a select few mares, then be picky. Don't be afraid to tell the mare owner that their precious pony is a train wreck, and you won't be offering them a service. I personally would also invest in a high quality mare, maybe a lease for a year, and breed something out of him once he is established in shows. Then you can show his get, and this horse becomes your advertisement.
         
        01-31-2012, 03:48 AM
      #15
    Started
    That's what I was thinking was show show show. As soon as the vet ok's more than up the street hauling and he's completely healed from his mess up in january he'll be going into halter schooling shows and then rated events as I can get them lined up. I'm limited to Washington and Oregon at the moment.
    My only problem so to speak for breeding is he's a Friesian and I'm only going to be offering him to Friesian Mares and possibly Gypsy Mares...not sure yet. Having a number behind his name limits his stud availability to only same breed mares, I think? Not sure if I want to go that route or just be extremely picky for cross breeds. Granted his sole purpose is far from breeding and his open months will be select of course. I have a while to figure all that out though. Right now I plan on taking him to his 3 year old Kurring and see how that goes. Nanning 374 has guaranteed foal book to his babies so if I understand correctly (which I'm probably not), he has a spot in the stallion books if he passes? At that point I'll have a big decision to make since I'd be kicked from the stallion book if he were to cross breed out.
         
        01-31-2012, 10:54 AM
      #16
    Trained
    Another BIG consideration is the ability of the stud owner to run a sizable marketing campaign. It doesn't matter if the stud is the best in the world, with the show record and a bazillion babies to prove it, if no one has ever heard of him. Don't necessarily go with the 'stallion du jour' but go with one whose owner has the bucks to support the stallion and isn't afraid to help promote his successful babies.

    Breeding a stallion at 2 or even 3 is way too early, IMO. Most don't have the mental maturity to handle being a using horse and a breeding stallion until they're at least 4 years old. And a stallion owner who doesn't believe in their own stallion enough to put their mares in foal to him, won't sell many breedings. When I run into a stallion owner who says, "I don't want to breed to my mares, I just want to sell breedings to outside mares.", I walk fast the other way. That's no more than a pimp and not a careful breeder, IMO. Without breeding your own foals from various mares, how can you know what works best with your stallion. And, "Well, I want to find out by using outside mares." is the wrong answer. Not for MY money you won't.
         
        01-31-2012, 11:11 PM
      #17
    Started
    My mares won't be bred to him not only because they are the wrong breed but because I didn't buy them to breed. I bought them to show. If I had a broodmare of the correct breed and lines specifically for breeding I would have no reservations on using her to produce his first year or even more for him however my mares are not going to do that.
    I know the friesian registery is very very very picky and doesn't allow any crossbreeding what so ever so he would only be available to same breed mares and only of magnificent lines. So by the time breeding roles around unless I find a mare that is of amazing lines and the owner is willing to let her be a test so to speak that is the direction I would go. However if that didn't come about I'd have no other option but to purchase my own broodmare of acceptable lines to work with.
    I can see where you're coming from but also think about the situation. I don't know of other registries rules but cross breeding is highly shamed for the Friesian registry although many do it. Gypsy Vanner to Friesian has it's own registry as Gypsian however the Friesian owner would get a ton of backlash for allowing that breeding, the stallion number would be dropped and from what I've been hearing...I'd be kicked from fhana and all friesian specific shows. Not something I'd like to aim for since Friesian showing is his main purpose. Besides the fact, breeding out to a Gypsy or a Clydesdale isn't exactly promoting correct breeding in the Friesian lines and that's what I would be doing very limited breeding for.

    Back on further topic just running the OP's question by friends and other riders today out of curiosity many wouldn't breed to an unproven stud and only one they've had experience with. Not necessarily in person but they would need to see papers, show records, points, offspring, offspring achievements...a number of things an unproven stud might not be able to have records for. However the people I talked to are high into the show world and only would breed to the most proven, reliable, and the best of course. I have no idea how they'd go about if breeding for a trail companion or such. They also said they wouldn't breed to a stud under the age of 6 and that would be a minimum age. Which made me think of Lestat and realize since showing is his main priority, until he's well on his way into that he won't even be phantom trained. Show show show of course. And that's what everybody said. They also said for breeding, when the option is available they'd go see the stud prospect show and meet him in person. Pictures and video can be photo shopped and edited to the stallions better side so to speak so if it's possible most would take the time to see him in person if it were an available option.
         
        01-31-2012, 11:55 PM
      #18
    Trained
    Wasn't necessarily referring directly to you, but you brought out some points that made me think of some things I've heard Arabian stallion owners say and my gut reaction to them.
         
        02-01-2012, 12:09 AM
      #19
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    Show him. A lot. Get his name out there as a winner in his discipline. Then show him some more. If you will only offer him to a select few mares, then be picky. Don't be afraid to tell the mare owner that their precious pony is a train wreck, and you won't be offering them a service. I personally would also invest in a high quality mare, maybe a lease for a year, and breed something out of him once he is established in shows. Then you can show his get, and this horse becomes your advertisement.
    This. We're new stallion owners, venturing into the lavish lifestyle of miniatures. It's not luxurious, but the people are great and the horses are FUN! We bought a stallion, he's not perfect (little over at the knee and a little thicker of a neck) - but he is competitive and we found that out this year and at one show the year before! However, no one shows his babies where it counts - so we had our own and boy is she NICE! She'll make her debut this year, and the future looks pretty black and white. :)



    THANKFULLY... I can do my own photography/graphic design/web designing. Saves a lot of money! Baby will be promoted this year, and next year we'll begin buying web ads and magazine ads. Who knows, maybe we'll even upgrade our stallion! It'll take a few years, but it will be worth it. We didn't know it buying him, but he's quite the celebrity already, which came as a bit of a shock to us when we'd pull up to mini shows and a lot of people knew his name and complimented him to high regards - thanks to the reputable breeder who put him on the ground.
         
        02-01-2012, 12:28 AM
      #20
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
    Wasn't necessarily referring directly to you, but you brought out some points that made me think of some things I've heard Arabian stallion owners say and my gut reaction to them.
    I didn't think you were referring directly to me, just answering in general since I felt the need to explain my particular outlook on the situation. I personally wouldn't want a stallion breeding where he hasn't been bred to the owners mares either because my immediate reaction would be "well what's wrong with him?" So thinking down the line I'd be looking for a Friesian lease or a Friesian mare I could possibly lightly show and breed to.
    I appreciate and outside look on those things too since I'm new to this whole thing. Granted I've decided I have quite a few years before he gets to figure this whole stallion thing out. No worries in planning ahead and looking at options though! This is a great thread for stallion owners and people looking for stallions!


    OH! AND THAT'S A GORGEOUSLY MADE POSTER! Jealous
    PaintsPwn likes this.
         

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