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For all you friesian cross lovers (or haters...)

This is a discussion on For all you friesian cross lovers (or haters...) within the Horse Breeds forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Saddlebred friesian cross dressage
  • Working with a abused fresian cross

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    12-17-2012, 03:41 AM
  #31
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayty    
They're fancy looking, and if you want a lovely cart horse then they're great horses.
But I'm not a fan of them under saddle, I've seen very few that I like - as you said, they pull themselves around on their shoulders, and the hind legs are a mile behind. Extensions they just go higher.
I think if you want a friesian as a saddle prospect, you'd get one for loving the breed, not for wanting to be competitive in a discipline other than in harness.

As to the crosses, I have yet to see one that I like. Some of the friesian/wb/tb crosses look ok, but still nothing that I'd jump out of my skin and give my right arm for.
Actually, the Friesian was a riding horse, popular with nobility, long before it become a pulling horse.
     
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    12-17-2012, 03:47 AM
  #32
Trained
Yep, but right now for competitive disciplines, they're not built to do it. Everyone seems to think they are Dressage horses - they're not. They pull like crazy, and the hind legs are just not designed to sit and carry - they track a mile out behind.
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    12-17-2012, 04:03 AM
  #33
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlideStop    
The thing that gets me is that they say they are breeding for height/larger saddlebreds. 1) Can't you find a TALL saddlebred, and breed it to TALL saddlebreds? 2) They are gaited horses, when you cross them obviously they are going to lose some of that natural ability. It's not like they are crossing them with tall TWH.
No, today is become very difficult to find large boned ASB's or TWH. It's not about height. Go out and measure the cannon bone size of your average ASB or TWH. You're doing great if you find 8". Show breeding has diminished the physical build and strength of the breed as a whole in favor of fancy movements. The old Saddlers were working horses, so bone size and endurance strength mattered, but it's not what show horses need.
Actually the ASB lost gaiting when the breed was created by breeding Saddler mares to TB Stallions. Saddlers were ALL naturally gaited. The two TB/Saddler stallion crosses that become the foundation stallions for virtually all the ASB breed were gaited, but still carred the non gaited genes of their TB sires which accounts for why you have so many ASB that are not naturally gaited and some that must be trained to it. Contrary to what many ASB lovers like to say it was the saddlers that were so hugely popular in the South and midwest prior to and during the 1960's. The TB crosses did not exist in sufficient numbers to supply all those gaited CAv mounts that were among the darlings of the Southern and later the US CAV. As well as many top officers.
And today I see many full blood TWH that are not gaited, so even that breed is suffering from the effects of breeding that is diminishing that breed. They are also starting to be less robust that they were when I had mine back in the 70's.
     
    12-17-2012, 04:39 AM
  #34
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayty    
Yep, but right now for competitive disciplines, they're not built to do it. Everyone seems to think they are Dressage horses - they're not. They pull like crazy, and the hind legs are just not designed to sit and carry - they track a mile out behind.
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I've heard people talk about them not riding well and being more suited for a carrage horse, but I've not seen it and I do ride them.
Mine rides like a dream although there have beem times when her trot was more animated than my previous QH and TWH were, but while it doesn't matter to me that's probably a plus to some people. I stopped having any interest in Dressage 44 years ago, but have had more than one does Dressage want me to have my older mare trained for dressage because of her "movement". And while she's never had any jump training she's only recently stopped jumping the 44" dividing fence between the pastures. Which she doesn't need to jump since there's no gate and an openning 3 feet from where she liked to jump it.
So while I hear people say they are not as athletic my personal experience has shown that they are. They seem more like a Warmblood which would make sense considering that both were created from the same basic breeding concept as the Dutch Warmblood. One was just developed many years earlier so it's more defined and established. In 100 year who knows what these other new breeds will be doing. Consider that the Dutch Warmblood breed was created in my lifetime and today I don't think anyone would say it's not an athletic horse well suited to riding compeition. Dispite the light draft and carrage horse blood used in it's creation.
     
    12-17-2012, 07:43 AM
  #35
Started
I can't say much about fresian or fresian crossing. It seems to be done a lot, which I think gives an over representation of horses that perhaps should not have been bred regardless of breed. I also can't say how I feel about the breed. I have only really seen them move in hand at horse show events and at that time they did not impress me. Then again most horses moving in hand do not impress me (its a giant lameness exam). I have never thought of them as un-athletic or incapable of things. I sort of assumed they were crossed with other breeds because they were athletic and expensive.
     
    12-17-2012, 08:14 AM
  #36
Yearling
I am curious as to what would even be the point of crossing a Friesian and a Saddlebred horse? Someone said to get a taller Saddlebred? That makes no sense at all as there are purebred Saddlebreds that are 17 + hands. If you want a Saddlebred with more bone, look to the 5 gaited bred horses, they tend to have a bit more bone. To me, if you want a Saddlebred with more bone, you begin by breeding Saddlebred to Saddlebred to create it. Tossing in random other horse just never made sense to me.

The Friesian cross thing was all the rage here a several years back now there are a lot of large headed horses standing in pastures and going through sales cheap because they don't do what some folks hoped they would. It seems instead of getting a good dressage horse, they produced a horse that was very heavy on the front end, unlike the Saddlebred that is lofty in front.

I am not saying there are No babies that are nice, I am sure there are, I just have not seen them. I have seen a LOT of cross breds though as like I said, they were all the rage here.

When looking for a Friesian under saddle, this is what I like.

     
    12-17-2012, 08:27 AM
  #37
Yearling
Now that's a darn nice horse, Inga. I personally think that the Friesian is one of the breeds that were created purely for aesthetics. I won't lie, I have the typical fascination with them, and they are the favourite breed of most people I know (but in their defense, most of them don't know much about horses). But they aren't practical, and they have no real use. I mean sure, I'd have one for casual trail rides if I was a millionaire just for the sake of it, but it would be one like the one in that video, one that moves almost like a normal horse.
     
    12-17-2012, 08:36 AM
  #38
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracer    
Now that's a darn nice horse, Inga. I personally think that the Friesian is one of the breeds that were created purely for aesthetics. I won't lie, I have the typical fascination with them, and they are the favourite breed of most people I know (but in their defense, most of them don't know much about horses). But they aren't practical, and they have no real use. I mean sure, I'd have one for casual trail rides if I was a millionaire just for the sake of it, but it would be one like the one in that video, one that moves almost like a normal horse.


Which is in large part why I have seen many many poorly put together cross breeds. SOME people think "oh Friesian, Oh Saddlebred" and toss them together. Not ALL Friesians are quality nor are all Saddlebreds. MUCH thought must be going into breeding regardless of what you are trying to accomplish. Looking BACK at bloodlines, what the specimen you are looking at has thrown. What is consistant in that line, what is strong, what is weak? These are all important and so few people look hard enough. IMO
     
    12-17-2012, 08:50 AM
  #39
Yearling
Tried to just add to my last post but it would not let me.


That is the fantacy of the Friesian but though I think it is pretty. I find it sort of sad as well. The horse is braided and protected 99% of it's life to protect hair. I am sort of guilty of that as I had a mare several years back that was a dark liver chestnut with a white/flaxen mane and tail. The tail was babyed, big time. It dragged on the ground 8 feet. It was long enough to wrap around the horse 1 1/2 times. It was brought down for shows and for cleaning only. One day I thought "what the heck am I doing?" I lopped her tail off and put her back out to run in the pasture. She was never abused but... I think she liked having her tail weigh less. Ha ha She ran around with it flagging up in the air. I lost interest in the "my pretty pony" thing. A horse is more then hair. Ha ha Thank goodness for that mare it was short lived. That tail grew like crazy and it didn't take long to get it that long. She was only tail pampered for a short time in her life. Glad it was short lived.
     
    12-17-2012, 08:59 AM
  #40
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by its lbs not miles    
So "geez" why do we bother to call any of them a breed? .....because that's what they become....a breed. When a GG Stallion out of a Friesian/Saddle bred cross is bred with a mare our of a Friesian/Saddlebred cross the offspring is not a Friesian/Saddlebred cross. Neither of the parents were Fresian or Saddlebered, so you can't say they're a Friesian or Saddlebred cross. But they have the exact same breeding line as a Friesian/Saddlebred cross. That's why we have "breeds".
Yes, that's what they become. But IMO, it's not a 'breed' now. In a generation or two when you can show me consistent offspring with the desired traits you've been breeding for, sure, then we can start calling it a breed. Creating new breeds of horses (or dogs for that matter) used to be a long process (painstaking and well thought out for some, accidental for others) but nowadays everyone wants instant gratification. "Look, I crossed two things - it's a new breed!!!" No, it's a cross. Perhaps a nice cross, but it's a cross.
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