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Anybody Else not get the quarter horse frame?

15K views 117 replies 37 participants last post by  RadHenry09 
#1 ·
ok what is the deal with the dragging heads and extremly slow movement IN HUNTER (flat) CLASSES!!! is this actualy correct? and how can they get over fences like that? idk but it is horribley painful to watch for me, and even worse when im in 4-h they always beat me even when i have an awsome ride and one of them makes a mistake, although i have to say 4-h is very biased. lol one time virtualy all of the horses in my class bucked (one girl got bucked off) and the judge had the nerve to tell me that my horse looked high strung (which i admit he isnt the quietest, but that day he was one of the quietest in the class). but anyways why do pple want thier horses heads dragging in the dirt? i dont get it
 
#2 ·
I have wondered this to. Maybe because a hunter should appear calm and easy to ride??

I am doing some pleasure classes with my gelding and I am nervous. He is a very calm horse and very easy and responsive but his head just doesn't sit as low as some of the others I see!
 
#3 ·
I dunno. Sometimes I think people take a "desirable trait" and exaggerate it until it is no longer desirable.

So many show horse characteristics are taken to the extreme.

I personally dislike the really slow WP type Quarter Horses (maybe the Hunters are similar, I am not as familiar with them). They move so slow that if my horse cantered or trotted like that out on the trail I would make him to go faster!

Really though, it's not the speed, but the impulsion. The WP horses look like they lack impulsion to me.

And then look at the poor Tennessee Walking Horses. They are naturally gaited and have wonderful gaits, but no, the show horse people aren't happy with the natural gaits and have to exaggerate them until they are grotesque caricatures of what the horse used to be. :cry:

So I just trail ride. I don't have to conform to anyone else's ideals. As long as me and my horse are relatively safe and well trained, we don't have to worry about what others think of us. We just go make ourselves happy!
 
#10 ·
You would be amazed at just how closely arabs and quarter horses are judged. Many quarter horse people use arab shows as schooling shows because the judging is so similar. Arabs have a slightly different conformation and carry their heads a bit higher but it's pretty close to the same way of riding.
 
#6 ·
Well, I know that getting your horse to stretch down, long and low is good. Many top level riders incorporate it into their daily riding, from GP Jumpers, Upper Level Dressage and Eventing - because the action gets them to work their topline and stretches their muscles.

BUT in order for this to work, the horse has to be on their back end, spine rounded *lifted* and tracking up. The horse has to be moving upwards in their shoulders, not downwards.

When I watch this new trend in the QH world, or as it is better known as the "Peanut Rolling" I watch for the proper movements for this head low thing to be effective....and I see none.

Instead I see the horse moving downwards through their shoulders, I don't see tracking up at all, I see butts high and the horses, to be honest, look miserable.

Do I understand it? Not at all. No matter how hard I look, I cannot see 1 horse moving correctly to make this "position" benefitial for the horse.

This fad, trend - has saddened me. It has also saddened friends of mine who were HUGE APHA circuit competators....and have abandoned their sport due to this.
 
#7 ·
well, i know that getting your horse to stretch down, long and low is good. Many top level riders incorporate it into their daily riding, from gp jumpers, upper level dressage and eventing - because the action gets them to work their topline and stretches their muscles.

But in order for this to work, the horse has to be on their back end, spine rounded *lifted* and tracking up. The horse has to be moving upwards in their shoulders, not downwards.

When i watch this new trend in the qh world, or as it is better known as the "peanut rolling" i watch for the proper movements for this head low thing to be effective....and i see none.

Instead i see the horse moving downwards through their shoulders, i don't see tracking up at all, i see butts high and the horses, to be honest, look miserable.

Do i understand it? Not at all. No matter how hard i look, i cannot see 1 horse moving correctly to make this "position" benefitial for the horse.

This fad, trend - has saddened me. It has also saddened friends of mine who were huge apha circuit competators....and have abandoned their sport due to this.
thank you!!!!!!
 
#8 ·
I agree with trailhorserider. I used to work with show Saddlebreds. That was my way to work and be around horses until I actually got my own. I've done the stretchers & chains. We never "sored" the horses though. And as far as padding, the barn owner might have a wedge added to the shoes...but nothing like what I saw on that Walking Horse video. Since I left that barn, I have done nothing but trail ride. I have no interest to show. But a horse carrying it's head that low looks unnatural. It's nice to see a horse relaxed...but there's a difference between looking relaxed and looking for a place to lay down.
 
#12 ·
It is amazing how quickly a fad takes control of any sport. I know that the peanut rollers are on the outbound train. I've noticed that the horses that have a more forward movement are starting to place now. In fact, judges will say "lope with a forward movement" now. That's not to say a peanut roller won't win a class, but they are headed out.
 
#14 ·
People who are uneducated in western pleasure are unaware of the beauty of what the horse is doing. If you take a few classes you will get a better understanding for it, you might not like it, but you will better understand the class. The thing I don't agree with is in peanut rolling when the horse seems as if they stop for a second and then keep going. But then again it does show how disciplined the horse is.

Just for a horse to travel at that slow of speed is amazing. For a horse to do that, it has to have alot of training and skill. Not to mention a high-strung horse wouldn't be best. And Justdressageit, is right. Youtube a few shows.
 
#17 ·
I didnt read the whole thread, so please excuse this if it was all ready said.

Peanut rolling is no longer correct and is punished in AQHA classes, same with troping and having your horse tilted. Horses are suppose to have their poll level with their withers. As for the being slow. there are some good moving QHs out there, however a lot of WP horses are also being shown HUS to get those all around points, but they have never really been taught how to move up.

I have some various feelings about 4H and the open shows that offer WP and HUS saddle classes. To me (and please don't take this as offensive) a lot of those horses are the ones that could not make it on the breed circuit for various reasons, and aren't always the best examples of what a good WP or HUS horse should look like.
 
#18 ·
In Australia, peanut rollers rarely win now. Most judges prefer a natural head carriage, and like forward movement. In response to the OP's question about why their head carriage is like that, it just is! Its what your horse must do to win. I'm sure I have a copy of the AQHA judging criteria somewhere, but I'm too lasy to look it up cause I really should be doing my homework :)
 
#19 ·
I do not see how there can be termed any "discipline" or "amazing movement" with WP horses. They lack impulsion, move downhill and are strung out... none of that screams amazing training or discipline to me, it screams stupid fad that makes horses look browbeaten and miserable... Sure it takes tons of training to achieve such an unnaturally slow and sluggish movement, you have to force a horse to move like that, it is not something to be trained for the benefit of the animal so I do not see how it pertains to dressage...modern dressage maybe with their rolkur, but classical dressage no, not at all.

Hence the reason I do not show.
 
#21 ·
I do not see how there can be termed any "discipline" or "amazing movement" with WP horses. They lack impulsion, move downhill and are strung out... none of that screams amazing training or discipline to me, it screams stupid fad that makes horses look browbeaten and miserable... Sure it takes tons of training to achieve such an unnaturally slow and sluggish movement, you have to force a horse to move like that, it is not something to be trained for the benefit of the animal so I do not see how it pertains to dressage...modern dressage maybe with their rolkur, but classical dressage no, not at all.

Hence the reason I do not show.
I have seen some crappy dressage horses (doing well at approved dressage tests) of days past and present too.

You can find bad examples in every discipline.
 
#20 ·
I am not going to get involved in this thread, becuase the 'tone' is already set.

Please note however, the western pleasure and hunter under saddle horses that are WINNING at AQHA shows are BRED to have a lower head set...

Yes, it was taken to far, and yes AQHA is trying to improve the movement on top of it all.

It is not like they are taking an arabian or morgan horse and forcing his high head set low... that just doesnt work.

If you don't like it than don't do it. Simple as that.


- an avid fan of AQHA, APHA, and ApHC horses and the events they compete in.
 
#22 ·
I am personally not a fan of the Quarter Horse breed shows, but I have actually seen some horses that are actually really moving, and are tracking under themselves. I do agree that for a while there, they were way into the peanut roller type of look. The one thing that does really bug me about Quarter Horses in general though, is that a lot of the horses are bred extremely downhill. I know that they are not looking to have the horse way up under himself, and very animated in the front like a Dressage horse or a Jumper, but they still just seem to be too downhill for what they are bred for. I know that the foundation bred horses in particular are generally used in cow horse events, or on ranches, so I know that they need to be able to get down in the dirt, and move quickly to cut off cows, so maybe thats why.
 
#24 ·
Honeysuga, it's probably a good thing you don't show. Dressage means training. Any horse that can ride is doing dressage.. Just like showing in dressage, WP horses are trained to be calm and supple. So I don't see how you don't think they are related. Just like in WP there are also other "fads" that people don't agree with. I know many WP horses that are just the opposite of "browbeaten" and "miserable". Maybe you should read up on your disciplines and go behind the scenes of a WP horse and trainer..
 
#25 ·
That is a rude statement Equestriun, I indeed know the difference between a true WP horse and one ridden in the "fad" style of the moment, the latter is what I was talking about in the first place, what the OP started the thread about....

I also know the definition of dressage:the execution by a trained horse of precision movements in response to barely perceptible signals from its rider.

What I was talking about was the fad horses, the peanut rollers. I should have been more clear in that I guess, but that is no reason to insult me. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

I do love to watch a properly ridden and trained WP horse, that truly is dressage, and it is lovely to see, but until lately that has been the exception rather than the rule and I am glad to see that fad passing.

Lastly I would like to add that even though I do not choose to show WP, I have "read up" and gone to many a show where WP is the prominent event or class, I am glad you are so passionate about WP, but my opinion was definitely not ill informed...
 
#27 ·
Actually all the Western Pleasure and HUS is being improved so much. The peanut rollers have been gone for years and the movement is forward. I think it is gonna take sometime for people to forget Western Pleasure's bad days but at this point I think QH Western is better than Arab. At least the QHs are bred to go that slow and carry themselves like that, Arab Western is almost miserable to watch.



HUS is getting better too, the "super posting" fad seems to be ending and riders are finally having contact with their horses' mouths. Quarter Horse showing is just getting better.

 
#33 ·
Actually all the Western Pleasure and HUS is being improved so much. The peanut rollers have been gone for years and the movement is forward. I think it is gonna take sometime for people to forget Western Pleasure's bad days but at this point I think QH Western is better than Arab. At least the QHs are bred to go that slow and carry themselves like that, Arab Western is almost miserable to watch.

YouTube - 2009 AQHYA World Show - Ryan Small - Western Pleasure Finals

HUS is getting better too, the "super posting" fad seems to be ending and riders are finally having contact with their horses' mouths. Quarter Horse showing is just getting better.

YouTube - Hunt Coats Required: 2009 NSBA WORLD CHAMPION / BCF CHAMPION
This is supposed to be the "improved version"???? That's awful! That's not "forward moving"! My horse's natural walk is probably faster than those horses' lopes! I have to just be honest and say that I hate, loathe, despise, and detest Western Pleasure and Hunter Under Saddle classes. I also have similar feelings for gaited horse showing. I don't care if they're "bred that way" - that's almost more horrible, to think that a large portion of the most popular breed of horse (AQH), has been mutilated to the point that they "jog and lope in their pastures".



I find the western horse in this video much more pleasant to watch. Why? Because it actually looks like it's alive.
 
#31 ·
>>>> When I watch this new trend in the QH world, or as it is better known as the "Peanut Rolling" I watch for the proper movements for this head low thing to be effective....and I see none.
>>>> This fad, trend - has saddened me. It has also saddened friends of mine who were HUGE APHA circuit competators....and have abandoned their sport due to this.

New trend???
"Peanut Rollers" are NOT a recent development. I have been attending/occasionally showing in QH/Paint/Appaloosa shows since the late 1980s and I casn be an eyewitness to the fact that "Peanut Rollers" were alive and well 20+ years ago. More recently, it has been improving, rather than getting worse. Heads and shoulders are coming up, rear ends are getting more engaged, backs are rounding, horses are not troping.

if someone got OUT of APHA due to peanut rolling... I wonder when they got IN? Because Seriously, if they had been showing in the early 1990s, they should know that the "new" trend is for better more natural, more level movers and less extremes---LESS LOOOOW headsets, draped reins, "go nowhere" gaits, and etc.
 
#34 ·
I like that western horse. However, the dressage horse is in absolute elevation switching to broken neckline and simply isn't moving the correct way. The western horse is far from perfection as well, but his movement is more so relaxed. As a dressage rider, I would actually consider the western horse in that video to be closer to true collection. I don't see why collection has to be defined by discipline, I think of it as being anatomically correct to the horse's body in order to hold a rider's weight comfortably.
 
#35 ·
Keep in mind that everything I am about to say is purely my own opinion.

I thoroughly dislike the entire discipline. I have ridden some WP horses and I did not find them pleasurable to ride at all. I don't want to ride a horse that can't see where he is going if the grass is more than 2 feet tall. Even when I ride simply for the pleasure of it, I generally have a destination in mind and I don't want to spend 3 days getting there. I understand that working long and low is benefitial to a horse but I guess my definition of long and low is completely different than some people. A horse should be level, controlled, cadenced, balanced, and comfortable first and fashionable second but too many people forget that. I for one, see nothing even close to natural about a horse with their head dropped down creeping around an arena. My Dad used to show and did train WP horses. He got out of that discipline mainly due to the peanut roller fad because he refused to train horses that moved like that. They are making strides toward improvement but as far as I am concerned, they have taken about 8 strides into a 15 mile trip.
 
#36 ·
Scary if the lope in that video is an improvement. What exactly is pleasurable about that lope? Neither the horse or the rider look like it is enjoyable. And how would you ever get anywhere if that is how a horse moved 'in real life'? Oh my!
 
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