Anyone with Iberian Warmbloods in Here? - Page 2
 
 

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Anyone with Iberian Warmbloods in Here?

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  • Breed information on iberian warmblood pictures
  • Welshand connemara mix

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    01-03-2013, 03:59 PM
  #11
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
I'm half German and no one goes around telling me that I'm a nazi.

Iberian horses do not posses the same traits or types as modern warmbloods, which is why there is clearly a warmblood type AND an iberian/baroque/spanish type.
Yes, of course 200, 500 years ago the breed types were different. However, in MODERN breeding there are warmbloods and iberians as two seperate breed groups.

Having worked with iberian, baroque and modern warmblood types I can say for sure they do not posses the same characteristics. Each requires a different training process and ride. Which down to the individual horse is also different, but in general far more sensitivity and care is needed with the iberian breed types.
The Nazis were a political regime and Hitler was Austrian so not really something to go by as most germans of the time would not have considered themselves to be Nazis
The Iberian breeds we see as typically Lusitano and Andalusian are considered 'Ancient' by definition of how far back they date. The Lippizaner - also an Iberian breed is considered to be Historic as only dates back to the 16th century as does the Alter Real and the Frederiksborg.
The Oldenburg has a lot of Friesan influence also has Iberian roots with a mix of many other breeds,The Holstein which was a mix of Iberian, Eastern & Neopolitan blood was a much bigger heavier animal than we see today and the Hanoverian (which was primarily a result of a crossing between a Holstein and TB) are defined as 'Historic'
Many of what we call Warmbloods that also have Iberian blood in their foundation are still 'mongrels' as far as breeding goes and are defined as 'modern' - for eg The Danish, Dutch & Belgian - the Danish WB has its foundation in the Fredericksborg which is an Iberian horse
Basically the word 'warmblood doesnt refer to a breed at all but to a 'type' - the new german warmblood ponies are a mix of the warmblood horses and British ponies such as the show pony type & the welsh and connemara - still very much a cross breed but being called a warmblood
As for the Lusitano being sensitive - to imply high strung' - that would be seen as a breed fault from using bad stallions/mares and not as typical
Historically they were bred as war horses and prized for their ability to go places other horses wouldnt - Hannibal is said to have travelled with 12000 of them over the Pyrenees and the Alps, it was valued as a working stock horse and for bullfighting so having a calm trainable disposition was essential and the breed society has tried to keep them as true to type as possible. These were the horses that were brought to the Americas in the 16th century so are also the foundation stock of many US breeds
We had a lady who imported many of them from Portugal and kept them at livery with us in the UK - they were amongst the easiest horses to train and handle that I have ever dealt with. I also knew someone who 'rescued several Lusitano bull fighting horses and they were exactly the same
Fulford15 likes this.
     
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    01-03-2013, 05:03 PM
  #12
Trained
I think we are coming from the same opinion, jaydee, that a warmblood is a very specific type where as the PRE and Lusitano horses are a defined breed. Crossing either with anything does not make a part Iberian a warmblood, nor a part warmblood an Iberian. To call either type the other is incorrect.

About the "high strung" bit. I never said that they are high strung, but a very sensitive horse. Very easy to ruin because of their high sensitivity, sense of pride and how easy they will pick things up. However they do not know right from wrong. Teach them to fear the leg, or run from a whip, to rear with a bit, etc.. even inadvertently and that is what they will do for a long, long time. Teach them to come forward into a long stride from the leg, to create a partnership with the bit and contact, and to seek praise with relaxation and they will be the easiest horse you have sat on!
     
    01-03-2013, 05:29 PM
  #13
Super Moderator
Even more confusingly all equines are supposed to fit into one of the 3 groups - hot (the TB and the arabian), Cold -(the draft horses and some of the draft type ponies such as the Fell, Highland, Dales) and warmblood which in theory should be everything else - which is where the nonsense begins.
And since they all actually have the same temperature of blood (but will have different blood group types) the whole thing is really a complete farce
At the end of the day the horse is as good as it is for what you want to do with it and what you make of it
BBBCrone and EvilHorseOfDoom like this.
     
    01-03-2013, 05:44 PM
  #14
Green Broke
Quarter Horses and Standardbreds are said to be in the warmblood group.

And basically a warmblood *was* a cross between a cold blood and hot blood but that was a very very long time ago, when people started realizing they could influence how a horse would look.

But I don't know how you would determine if it is a Danish or Dutch.. ect warmblood. They would say they are a Dutch Warmblood but are actually a Hano/Holstein.
     
    01-03-2013, 08:27 PM
  #15
Trained
RM, the Danish/Dutch/Oldenberg/Hanoverian etc warm bloods go by 'types' they are not necessarily 'breeds'. A Hanoverian by breeding (parents are registered Hanoverians) can be accepted into the Oldenberg stud book as a breeding animal and registered as Oldenberg even though it's parents were both registered in the Hanoverian stud book.
It all goes by type. If that stallion has traits desired by Oldenberg, then it can be registered as such - after inspection.
The same goes for mares. My 2 year old is a branded and registered Hanoverian. His sure was imported from Germany as a Hanoverian but he carries Oldenberg breeding.
His dam is an Australian thoroughbred. She was inspected and approved by the Hanoverian stud book, as a foundation mare.

True warm blood breeding is far more complicated than slapping your old thoroughbred mare with ovaries in the paddock with your friend's clydie stud and calling the resulting goal a warm blood.
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    01-04-2013, 12:32 PM
  #16
Foal
I didn't mean to cause so much controversy!

Her sire is Soberbio RR and he was inscribed into the stud book in Spain, so I don't doubt that he is not crossed with anything.

I'm not trying to debate WB vs non WB (though I love reading the responses of the debate going on!), so I will leave that be.

I will touch on the training aspect- she has been an absolut delight to work with. She is incredibly smart and willing. I have a 15 y/o OTTB who I have had for 9 years and she's always been way easier to work with than him. But, I have always been consistent with working her. I know someone who bred PRE's and Hispano-Arabe's and never worked with the babies and would turn them out once every few months and they were (understandably) out of control (though I don't see them as a good sample of the breed/cross)

I've never seen Soberbio myself (the filly sort of fell into my lap once she was born) so I couldn't verify if he is 16.1 or not. The 2 men who I talked to about him are both short (and let's face it, not very horse savvy) so maybe he appeared bigger to them? I could contact the breeder, I suppose, to find out for sure.
     
    01-04-2013, 01:01 PM
  #17
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustbemonroe    
I didn't mean to cause so much controversy!

Her sire is Soberbio RR and he was inscribed into the stud book in Spain, so I don't doubt that he is not crossed with anything.

I'm not trying to debate WB vs non WB (though I love reading the responses of the debate going on!), so I will leave that be.

I will touch on the training aspect- she has been an absolut delight to work with. She is incredibly smart and willing. I have a 15 y/o OTTB who I have had for 9 years and she's always been way easier to work with than him. But, I have always been consistent with working her. I know someone who bred PRE's and Hispano-Arabe's and never worked with the babies and would turn them out once every few months and they were (understandably) out of control (though I don't see them as a good sample of the breed/cross)

I've never seen Soberbio myself (the filly sort of fell into my lap once she was born) so I couldn't verify if he is 16.1 or not. The 2 men who I talked to about him are both short (and let's face it, not very horse savvy) so maybe he appeared bigger to them? I could contact the breeder, I suppose, to find out for sure.
don't worry about controversy - its actually only debate and a learning curve in many ways. This is the internet - we don't have to have lunch with each other!!!!
As far as I can tell Soberbio is Andalusian and not Lusitano - they have the same foundation breeding but had more arab added to the mix to give a smaller prettier head. He is stated as being 16.2 but like many breeds that have for years been 15.2 average or were historically that height (such as the Irish Draft) I think demand for a taller horse has probably seen an increase in height in the breed - the same thing is now happening with arabians. As long as its not at the expense of quality or other characteristics I don't see a problem with it.
I hope you'll share some photos and your progress with us
     
    01-04-2013, 01:11 PM
  #18
Weanling
Anebel is correct about them being sensitive and pick things up very quick. Also the trait that can lead to them being ruined, I have one mare who was mishandled at some point and now we're regaining trust and being able to handle her like a "normal" horse.

Currently, I own 3 Andalusians. If the stallion is 16.1 then there is some thing else in there. The stallion my girls are in foal to is 15.3 on the knocker. I want to get a good, well breed TB mare to event on and to later breed, more height and hopefully my horse for higher levels.

My girls are 12, 11 and 7. One is having her second foal and the others, their first.
     
    01-04-2013, 01:24 PM
  #19
Weanling
Great info! So for the sake if argument/discussion, would a draft bred to anything produce a WB? If so, what?

Also, I am confused on the difference between an warmblood and a sporthorse. Perhaps draft/TBs are sporthorses, which is yet another type?

Thanks everyone! Glad to learn about the baroque horses when I can :)
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    01-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #20
Super Moderator
My sister owned an andalucian stallion which I used to ride, compared to my Tb I would not describe him as sensitive or anything special, although he was stunning to look at.
     

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