Appaloosa the Nez Perce and racist history. - Page 2
 
 

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Appaloosa the Nez Perce and racist history.

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  • Nez Perce Indians before writen history
  • the pilgrams and the nez perce

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    07-30-2012, 04:48 PM
  #11
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d    
Been reading alot of history lately and am finding lots and lots of it is racially and nationally biased.
Of course it is. It's based on the white man's perspective. We've found out that Columbus enslaved and committed genocide on the Native people. Granted, it's been a few years since I've cracked a history book, but that certainly wasn't in the ones that I read.

History glorified Custer when in fact he was another who wanted to wipe out the Native people. Again, according to the history books I read while in school, he was made out to be a hero.

As Darrin stated, those in charge write the history books and it's not always the full truth.
     
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    07-30-2012, 07:10 PM
  #12
Green Broke
And the pilgrims settled plymouth, because there was already a town there and the fields were cleared. Plague spread by earlier explorers had pretty much wiped out the eastern indians. So we are saying a gap in fossil data PROVES only the spanish could have brought horses ? Hog wash, Why couldnt the chinese have brought them to trade in the early 1400's ?

Ok the offical white man version,,, Spanish horses got loose, many of the indians wanted to eat them, about 1690 they reached the shoshone, who had no use for them because of the terrain. The Nez perce traded for a few cause they were intrigued , SO in barely 100 years, they developed a herd over 10,000. Many men had 50 or 60 each, They developed superior breeding, superior riding, superior gelding techniques, and a COMPLETELTY NEW BREED that just hapenned to nearly duplicate asian horses ? In 100 years without any outside influence until Lewis and Clark showed up in 1804 ?

Yeh and I got some ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell you cheap. I am really waiting to hear back from the Nez Perce Historians.
     
    07-30-2012, 08:30 PM
  #13
Trained
There was slavery and genocide in America before Columbus. And Spaniards accused Columbus of gross cruelty, and he was sent in chains back to Spain before the King of Spain released him.

Custer was a mixed bag. No rational person ever called him a coward, tho, and he fought and killed plenty of white guys in the Civil War. Unless you believed the movie "They Died with Their Boots On", there has been a TON of negative history written about Custer. By the time I started high school in the 70s, more folks attacked his reputation than revered it.

The Pilgrims did not move into an established town. Illness brought by visiting fishermen had killed out the town of 2000 Patuxet...almost 100% mortality. While that meant there weren't enough natives to overrun them, that doesn't mean they walked in and took over a town. In the first year, sickness killed half of the whites.

"Why couldnt the chinese have brought them to trade in the early 1400's ?"

I guess the big problem is that there is no record of any kind of horses in America before the Spanish. No paintings. No drawings. No toys. No words for horse. No oral tradition.

Nor is there any indication the Chinese were exploring America, let alone trading here. Nor the Koreans. Nor the Japanese. Either it was an enormous secret, concealed for all time, or it didn't happen.

Further, the theory requires the Nes Perce to have bred horses without any of their neighbors catching on to it.

It is kind of like the wheel. The concept wasn't entirely unknown prior to Columbus, but there is no evidence wheels were being used to transport anything anywhere in America.

Things just don't happen in a vacuum. If there had been horses, there would have been ripples in the historical pond - toys, drawings, words for horses, attempts to steal them...something.

If you want to hold to your theory, have a nut. If you want anyone to believe you, you'll need more than paintings of spotted horses in China...or of spotted horses in caves in France (around 18,000 years ago):

AllieJ333 likes this.
     
    07-30-2012, 08:47 PM
  #14
Green Broke
Well Joe, if some credible alternative with evidence appears I'll believe it. Until then I'll stick with the current theory. Chinese definitely had a decent navy at one time and "could" of brought horses here. To my knowledge there are no chinese writings saying they did and we know they have a long written history. Maybe archivist just haven't dug out the right scrolls yet and if they do I'll believe it.

As for going to 10k horses in 100 years, not a problem and doesn't even take that long with a low death rate. Starting with 20 mares and doubling every year and you'll reach 10k horses in 10 years. Of course there will be deaths and they all wont be mares but still easily reached number in 20 years. As for their skills, that can spread fast also with just one person being taught by a knowledgeable person and teaching tribes full of interested braves.
     
    07-30-2012, 10:14 PM
  #15
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin    
Well Joe, if some credible alternative with evidence appears I'll believe it. Until then I'll stick with the current theory. Chinese definitely had a decent navy at one time and "could" of brought horses here. To my knowledge there are no chinese writings saying they did and we know they have a long written history. Maybe archivist just haven't dug out the right scrolls yet and if they do I'll believe it.
Yeah, unlike the Indians, all Asians that had horses that I am aware of had a writen language in the time frame they had boats large enough to carry horses.

As to the racism issue, I got lost somewhere. What does that have to do with horses?
texasgal, dbarabians and AllieJ333 like this.
     
    07-30-2012, 10:36 PM
  #16
Super Moderator
HOw would you account for the INdians themselves using words like "Big Dog" to describe an animal they apparently had never seen before.?
dbarabians and Stichy like this.
     
    07-30-2012, 11:50 PM
  #17
Trained
Joe without evidence your theory is just that a theory and nothing else.
The wild horse population doubles every four years. It is not too far fetched to see how the numbers increased in a 100 year period.
No one will probably have anything stronger than a guess to estimate when the Native Americans tribes got the horses.
Shalom
     
    07-31-2012, 12:04 AM
  #18
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceman    
Yeah, unlike the Indians, all Asians that had horses that I am aware of had a writen language in the time frame they had boats large enough to carry horses.

As to the racism issue, I got lost somewhere. What does that have to do with horses?
He didn't mean that racism has anything to do with horses.
Just with history writers.
     
    07-31-2012, 10:44 AM
  #19
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste    
He didn't mean that racism has anything to do with horses.
Just with history writers.
I realize that.

Let me rephrase...what the heck does (alleged) racism among history writers have to do with the origin of the Appaloosa?

.................................................. .............

I believe in keeping things simple, and this seems to be a rather simple problem to me.

Before Spaniards arrived...no horses.
After Spaniards arrived...horses

We can speculate all we want, but it isn't really any more complicated than that.

It's no different than...

Before Impressive...no HYPP
After Impressive...HYPP

We know where HYPP came from, and we know where Appys came from...
     
    07-31-2012, 11:29 AM
  #20
Showing
I worked in restoration for an historical library, mainly western Canada. Apparently when it was learned that the native people were susceptible to white man's diseases order were given to trade small pox infected blankets. That disease decimated the native population. I've often wondered if small pox would have lived on the blankets during a voyage. It would make more sense if sailor's unknowingly infected women who unknowingly spread it. We don't read of how many women these men raped. There's an island of the Japanese mainland,where the traditional costume is not like that of the mainland but similar to our west coast Salish. Has anyone done DNA to see if the early Salish were actually Japanese. The North American coastline the continental shelf was once above water so travelling between continents and moving along the coasts wasn't any where as difficult as if tried today in the same manner as when NA was first settled.
     

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