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Appys changing colors?

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  • Strange horse colors

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    09-21-2009, 10:28 PM
  #11
Trained
Quote:
say whatever you like, I know what I saw so I couldn't care less what you say =]


Sheesh, Haley was just telling you how what you saw might have come about. Relax and don't jump on people.

I think in your case, the foal may have looked Palomino before shedding out to his brown/appy colouring, then greyed before you went to see him.

A friend of mine has an appy. When he was younger, he was a bay with a blanket and a small amount of roaning near his head/legs, and now he looks like this:

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    09-22-2009, 01:09 AM
  #12
Weanling
I would have to see pictures to comment on this specific horse.

Horses with the LP gene (the "on off switch" for Appaloosa characteristics, and the expression of patterning, if any is present) and/or Appaloosa patterning, can go through weird changes in both base color and patterning.

I had a horse who was born red dun with a blanket over his back and hips. As a young stallion he had alot of white speckling in his red dun forparts, down his legs and etc. A few years later this reversed and his red dun areas became more solid again. Then as an aged stallion the white speckling returned. He never really roaned, as in, gained white hairs that were dispersed/blended througout his dark haired areas..... but the amount of visible white outside his blanket increased, decreased, then increased again. If he had lived longer it may have decreased again.

The presence of LP can indeed interact with base color to cause changes. For example, my current stallion was born bay with a small white blanket over his hips. He roaned and is now mostly white. He does have color on his legs, mane and tail, and over the "bony prominences" of his body, but he no longer has any black points-- areas that used to be black look dark chestnut-- but he IS still genetically a bay.

There are at least two Appaloosas I know of who look dun or palomino, but who have been genetically tested as black. At least one had base colored areas that were the typical color of a foal who was going to be black, but those areas shed out gold.

It is also possible that the winter coat was lighter and faded to almost white, and when the horse shed again, he was again dark. This is not common in chestnuts, but very common in dilute colors such as palomino or buckskin. It seems more extreme in horses with LP.

Horses with LP as well as the grey gene sometimes do go grey very quickly, sometimes shedding out totally white on their first foal shed.

If the Appaloosa in question truly greyed, as in, from the action of the grey gene (which is unrelated to Appaloosa coloring) I agree he would not gain color again later (except maybe for flea bites, which do appear as little "re-colored" specks in greys who have already turned off mostly white). However if his "going white" was due to the Action of LP, I would not rule out re-coloring later on-- its not common, but based on the Appaloosa weirdness I have seen, its not totally impossible.
     
    09-22-2009, 10:21 AM
  #13
Foal
he was born a palomino
he was a leopard spot in the summer
and he was grey in the winter

i saw his passport which had a picture of him as a foal
i saw a video of him jumping in summer which I could tell was him from his movement and his roach back
and I went to see him and rode him in winter

yes, my vet also thought that this was unusual

i don't have pictures as I didn't buy him

at the end of the day, when it comes to horses you can never really say "that can never happen" because, really, anything can happen - however unusual it sounds, I won't give anymore examples of my personal experience as all of you clearly know best so I wont join in on this converstaion anymore
     
    09-22-2009, 05:19 PM
  #14
Weanling
>>> he was born a palomino he was a leopard spot in the summer and he was grey in the winter
>>> at the end of the day, when it comes to horses you can never really say "that can never happen" because, really, anything can happen - however unusual it sounds, I won't give anymore examples of my personal experience as all of you clearly know best so I wont join in on this converstaion anymore

Is the above in response to my post? Because I was responding to the changes described in the OP, with the horse that was born chestnut/app, then went "grey" then back to chestnut/app..... as well commenting on the weirdness of some appaloosa effects in general. Even though I was not responding to your observation specifically, if you re-read what I posted you will see I basically agree with you on most points. I thought that I was pretty clear that with Appaloosas I "never say never". No offense was intended--
     
    09-22-2009, 05:37 PM
  #15
Foal
Quote:
Is the above in response to my post? Because I was responding to the changes described in the OP, with the horse that was born chestnut/app, then went "grey" then back to chestnut/app..... as well commenting on the weirdness of some appaloosa effects in general. Even though I was not responding to your observation specifically, if you re-read what I posted you will see I basically agree with you on most points. I thought that I was pretty clear that with Appaloosas I "never say never". No offense was intended--
oh nono, I wasnt replying to you, I was really greatful for your post and found it really interesting - thanks !, it was to the people who basically said I was lying
     
    09-22-2009, 06:27 PM
  #16
Trained
Dramatic much? I don't think I read anyone say you were lying. All I read is that what you think you saw is highly unlikely/impossible and there is probably another explanation.

You need to relax and accept that there are some things that are fact, and that no one was attacking you.

If gthe horse really changed from a true leapord spot to a true grey every year, you should let a geneticist knwo as i'm sure they would love to study such an anomaly.
Stichy likes this.
     
    09-22-2009, 08:03 PM
  #17
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollybee    
say whatever you like, I know what I saw so I couldn't care less what you say =]
I'm not "saying whatever I like". This is the way the gray gene works. Don't believe me, look it up.

The Lp gene could TOTALLY cause a horse a to "white" in the winter, then as it sheds for the summer it gets it's dark coat back.. I was saying the horse couldn't technically be GRAY, as in, have the gray gene.
     
    09-23-2009, 08:26 AM
  #18
Foal
well you are really, half of you are saying it's impossible the other half are telling me what I "might have thought I saw"

as I said before, I didn't buy that horse as he failed his vetting - so tracking him down to pay for him to have some tests is a complete nono, maybe if the man selling didn't try to fob us off with him I could have done that for you =]

i'm sorry, i'm not accepting that that is fact . . . 4 people came to see that horse with me we all thought he was quite unusual & special, the yard owner & workers knew he was unusual from his colour changes, I saw his passport, I saw his breeding and i've been around horses long enough to know that when a horse is grey it's grey, just because you have never seen a horse change colour that dramatically I obviously "thought I saw something else"

so appaloosa's can't be grey can they ? Alright, you're all right aren't you ?





That's funny isn't it ?



"I consider appy's the fun breed as each spring it seems they are a different. They change in the winter and come spring they usually have more spots or more grey. You never know what you are going to end up with,lol. I love my appy" -- Quote from another forum

"I have seen Apps change color by the season and year so it just depends. That makes them so cool. Always a surprise and beautiful!" -- yet another quote from that forum


That forum seems way better than this one, at least they're not all norrow minded, and as I said - i'm sorry but I don't agree with your "facts"
     
    09-23-2009, 09:17 AM
  #19
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollybee    
That forum seems way better than this one, at least they're not all norrow minded, and as I said - i'm sorry but I don't agree with your "facts"

I'm not commenting on the rest of your post, but don't come onto this forum and abuse it. That's just stupid. If you don't like this forum, it's simple, leave.
     
    09-23-2009, 09:24 AM
  #20
Yearling
No one ever say Appys can't be grey. They said if their grey coloring was a result of having the grey gene then they wouldn't turn grey and then turn another color. Once they turn grey they'll stay grey IF they have the grey gene. That's my understanding of what was said.

Now I'm wondering, is it possible for a horse to appear to be grey without having the grey gene?
     

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