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Appys changing colors?

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  • Appaloosa-grey gene
  • Appaloosa color change

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    09-23-2009, 09:30 AM
  #21
Foal
Quote:
I was saying the horse couldn't technically be GRAY, as in, have the gray gene.
oh well

then a respone to the above - maybe, as "dollar" the horse I went to see had grey, brown & black through his coat more like a marble appy in winter like I said, but if it's impossible for appys to go grey then another colour maybe he just had a funny coat but not the grey gene ?? I don't know
     
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    09-23-2009, 05:05 PM
  #22
Trained
Quote:
i'm sorry, i'm not accepting that that is fact . . . 4 people came to see that horse with me we all thought he was quite unusual & special, the yard owner & workers knew he was unusual from his colour changes, I saw his passport, I saw his breeding and i've been around horses long enough to know that when a horse is grey it's grey,just because you have never seen a horse change colour that dramatically I obviously "thought I saw something else"


WRONG. I have a roan in my paddock who changes from nearly solid bay to nearly solid white. Unless you don't count that as a big transformation?

Those pictures above don't show a grey horse. They show an appy (In BOTH pictures his blanket is clearly visible/distinguishable) and also, not a true leapord appy. To me he looks like a varnish roan/snowflake appy with a black base and some defined spots. The roaning acting on the black base is what makes him look 'grey', but he is NOT a true grey. Nearly all horses with roaning change colour throughout the seasons, like the pony I know above.

Quote:
i've been around horses long enough to know that when a horse is grey it's grey,
So a blue roan is a grey because it looks grey? A palomino in a faded winter coat is grey because it looks grey?
Quote:

"I have seen Apps change color by the season and year so it just depends. That makes them so cool. Always a surprise and beautiful!"
I have also seen this, and I SAID it in an earlier post. Another pony in my paddock is an appy and went from being nearly true bay with a blanket to roaning all through his coat except the legs.

I really don't appreciate you insulting this forum. All people have been trying to do is educate you. That's what this forum is about. But you just go *la la la* when people use FACTS to explain why what you thought you saw couldn't have happened. That horse is not a grey in any way, shape or form. Sure, it's a grey colour, but it's not a TRUE grey.
Spotted and Stichy like this.
     
    09-23-2009, 05:18 PM
  #23
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollybee    
oh well

then a respone to the above - maybe, as "dollar" the horse I went to see had grey, brown & black through his coat more like a marble appy in winter like I said, but if it's impossible for appys to go grey then another colour maybe he just had a funny coat but not the grey gene ?? I don't know
Yep that's exactly it! :) Lp (appy gene) definitely makes things weird, and appys do change by the month and year. Oh and yes, appys can have the grey gene, it just seams like that one in particular didn't have it.
     
    09-23-2009, 05:23 PM
  #24
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_spot    

Those pictures above don't show a grey horse. They show an appy (In BOTH pictures his blanket is clearly visible/distinguishable) and also, not a true leapord appy. To me he looks like a varnish roan/snowflake appy with a black base and some defined spots. The roaning acting on the black base is what makes him look 'grey', but he is NOT a true grey. Nearly all horses with roaning change colour throughout the seasons, like the pony I know above.
I agree, the horses posted are not grey. They look to be black based with the appy roaning (from Lp), and what pattern have have on top of that. As those horses age, is it likely they will become whiter due to Lp changing their coat, but it's not true grey.
     
    09-23-2009, 08:46 PM
  #25
Foal
Quote:
I really don't appreciate you insulting this forum. All people have been trying to do is educate you. That's what this forum is about. But you just go *la la la* when people use FACTS to explain why what you thought you saw couldn't have happened. That horse is not a grey in any way, shape or form.


the horse I saw had a grey coat but probably didn't have the grey gene - which I never said he did, and as I said later on ^^ he was more of a marble appaloosa but didn't explain this at the start - shoot me

at the end of the day, their coat colour on those pictures regardless of there snowcaps, blankets or other markings is grey - when you look at those pictures, their coat is grey - whatever their skin colour / genes are - shoot me
(and just for reference, the appy I went to see didn't look like either of them)

Quote:
i've been around horses long enough to know that when a horse is grey it's grey
when I said that I didn't mean it as in he was a true grey - as from the start I said he was an appaloosa, I meant the colour of his coat was grey regardless of patterning

all I said was that he went from leopard to grey, I do apologise that I didn't give you every detail - I just said he went grey rather than explaining every colour that was through his coat as I didn't think we'd have a debate about it - I was just giving a quick paragraph on an unusual horse that I had come into contact with

so now I hope everyones going to stop telling me what I thought I saw as all I was saying is horses do change dramatically and I knew an appaloosa that did - if I ever see him again (which I highly doubt) as the hunting yard he was at completely ruined him i'll ask for some pictures for you all
     
    09-23-2009, 09:03 PM
  #26
Foal
and just one last thing, from my original post -

Quote:
well, I went to see a horse who (at the time (winter)) looked like a dapple grey
regardless of everything, you can look at an appaloosa and part of it's coat is/looks grey
     
    09-23-2009, 10:27 PM
  #27
Trained
^ I can look at my solid chestnut with a blaze and a sock and parts of his coat look grey.

Of course people are going to debate a post that makes assumptions without giving the full story.If anyone on any post said that they saw something that genetically isn't possible, people are going to be interested and argue.
     
    09-24-2009, 10:28 AM
  #28
Foal
yes I understand that, but as I said before I didn't give the whole story as I didn't realise we'd have a debate about me being blind, I don't have a lot of time on the computer I go to college & have 4 horses to look after and I don't drive which makes my days very long & full, so when I type things on here / myspace / facebook I miss a lot of things out as when I am on the comtuper I am doing college work and my mind is otherwise occupied - next time I post something i'll try to remember to give you every possible detail

as I said, most of his coat was grey, I now know that appaloosa's can't genetically be truly grey - thanks for that as it's something I didn't know about appallosa's genetics, even so, "dollar" was not a roan and looked mostly grey

i appreciate all of your comments, but, I have had horses for 15 years, I have my BHS stage 1 & 2 and i'm training towards my stage 3 and Assistant Instructor exam . . . I'm not stupid

and i'm not saying that he ^^ was, but none of us can deny that there can be throwbacks when breeding & in the wild. A few years ago a cremello was born in to a completely feral New Forest herd . . . That's probably the first cremello in New Forest history - as you are all probably aware that they are all bay / dun

just a bit of proof for you, as I have it this time

Pictured: The rare 'albino' foal that's become a star of the New Forest | Mail Online
     
    09-24-2009, 11:29 AM
  #29
Weanling
As I said in my above post, yes they can be grey. Appaloosa's can carry the gray gene. But that horse in question you were describing didn't have it, if he was brown when shedded out.

We weren't calling you stupid, we were merely trying to educate you. It's only been recently that equine genetics have really become understood, and most people still know very little about it. Even my trainer tried to tell me Arabians can be buckskin, when in fact they cannot because PB arabs don't carry the cream gene, and she's been around horses for 30+ years. A little knowledge never hurt anyone. :P

It wouldn't really be that hard for a cremello foal to be born. That foals dam looks smoky brown to me. Definitely not regular bay or brown, and definitely not dun either. All it would take is for the foal's sire to carry the cream gene as well, and viola cremello. It's fairly basic genetics really, not some weird anomaly.
     
    09-24-2009, 11:49 AM
  #30
Weanling
I think most of the confusion/argument on this thread is terminology. Most "modern" horse enthusiasts and registries in the US do not use the term "grey" to describe a horse unless it is a horse who is gradually turning white because it has the greying gene. I notice Hollybee lists their location as the UK-- perhaps in her part of the world the word "grey" is used more for general phenotype-- like, if a horse's coat is a shade between black and white, its called grey-- no matter what genetic action caused it. It used to be that way in the US as well, and there are still some horse folks in the US, especially older horse folks, who use the term grey that way.


>>>>as I said, most of his coat was grey, I now know that appaloosa's can't genetically be truly grey - thanks for that as it's something I didn't know about appallosa's genetics, even so, "dollar" was not a roan and looked mostly grey

A horse CAN have both grey genetics, and LP genetics, and there can be alot of confusion arise from that in subsequent generations, since both grey and LP can cause progressive whitening and their effect can look similar at certain stages, but they are totally seperate genes. It is not desirable combination with many breeders/owners, because of that confusion, and also as eventually the end result of greying from the grey gene is that the horse loses most if not all of its Appaloosa color, including the spots. (Appaloosa roaning can make a horse go very white as well, but leaves its Appaloosa spots). Here is a mare I used to own who had LP characteristics (mottled skin, sclera, etc.) as well as the grey gene--



>>>>>Now I'm wondering, is it possible for a horse to appear to be grey without having the grey gene?

Oh yes, absolutely. At certain stages/certain horses, there are several other genes whos' effects can mimic grey gene greying. I had a big fewspot Appaloosa mare (different mare from above, sorry, no online photos, she was pretty much pre-computer LOL)-- no grey anywhere in her pedigree-- who my vet insisted as calling grey on her Coggins papers-- she was almost all white with a few roany smudges of color on her legs-- also had some dark skin under the white hair on parts of her body-- As a fewspot, she only had two or three Appaloosa spots, which were not greyed, but were not large or obvious. She really did look grey to someone not familiar with extremely white/extremely roaned Appaloosas.
     

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