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Color gurus?

This is a discussion on Color gurus? within the Horse Breeds forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

     
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        04-22-2010, 03:17 AM
      #11
    Green Broke
    His coloring is almost identical to my old QH gelding, minus the blue eyes. I think my QH got a "touch" more coppery in the summer, but other than that just the same, I was always told liver chestnut.
         
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        04-22-2010, 04:16 PM
      #12
    Foal
    Do you know what the colours are in his bloodlines? As far back as you can go? That should help give an indication. I'd rule out Bay completely, his points are brown rather than black.... but his colouring could be a lot more interesting than simply liver chestnut depending on his genes! :)
         
        04-22-2010, 05:32 PM
      #13
    Started
    Wow! Thanks for all the replies!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wild_spot    
    To me, he looks liver chestnut, maybe with splash white in there to account for the blue eye.
    I've actually been assuming splash white, too, between the blue eye and the white lower lip.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aneternalflame    
    I posted this link on the sooty palomino thread, but on this page there is a palomino who is about the same colour as your horse. The third picture down. I think the only way you could be sure would be to have your horse tested.
    Morgan Colors- Palomino Morgan Horses
    That is really interesting! If I'd seen that fella walking down the street, I'd never peg him as a palomino! I'll have to look into the color testing!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ink    
    I also would call him a liver chestnut. I could be wrong but don't palomino's have the ability to throw back to chestnut since its the recessive gene? I don't know it's been a long time since 4-h horse bowl genetics lol. Oh and he's super cute by the way! I love his blue eye :)
    I'm by no means a genetics expert, but I do remember reading something once about crossing palominos with chestnuts to deepen the gold shade, or some such thing... that was in a very dated book, though, and it seemed like it was referring to a redder or copper chestnut rather than a liver shade. Thanks for the compliment! I'll pass it on to him!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Squeak    
    I vote liver chestnut...

    You look *so* familiar!
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Iseul    
    hmm...I'd go with liver chestnut as well, but he may "soot out" ( don't know what else to call it XD was a try to be joke thing thing..maybe not though..) as he gets older. But I definitely see liver chestnut as of the moment.
    Testing is probably the only way you'll be able to know for sure though, as a few others said.

    -edits-

    Oh..and I know who you remind me of XD look almost like identical twins. The chica that rides Izzy at the barn I ride at haha so very, very similar lol
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Ha ha, I get the familiarity thing a lot, actually. I must just have one of those faces... Actually, Iseul, now that I look at you location, I'm in NW PA. So, maybe you've seen me... I don't know any horses named Izzy, though...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RoyalsRebel    
    Do you know what the colours are in his bloodlines? As far back as you can go? That should help give an indication. I'd rule out Bay completely, his points are brown rather than black.... but his colouring could be a lot more interesting than simply liver chestnut depending on his genes! :)
    I really don't have much background on him at all. He's ballparked about 8 years old (vet's guess based on teeth), and the people that I bought him from had him for about a month; he was given to them in really poor condition. I don't even know quite what breed he is... I'm basically assuming QH/Pony cross. I bought him for his charming attitude, lol. The most history I have on him is an old vet receipt from a year earlier and the palomino comment from an, erm..., less than reliable source (long story). That sooty stallion has me reconsidering it, though. Right now he's down as a dark chestnut on his Coggins paperwork, but that is my guess as the sellers didn't have any kind of records with him upon sale. The only reason I have an '08 vet receipt is that he was seen by my vet then, and we were able to ID his name and markings on the doc's computer. Looks like it'll take a test to be sure. I'll have to look into it after I see what kind of dent his annual checkup makes in my wallet!

    Thanks for the insights, everyone! Looks like he'll stay dark/liver chestnut unless I can get him tested and he proves to be otherwise!
         
        04-22-2010, 05:35 PM
      #14
    Green Broke
    Lol I'm chillin down in beaver county, like..smack in the middle of the western side XD and maybe lol coz I thought the chica that had Izzy (black tb, btw haha) looked like someone I've seen before too haha never mentioned it to her though :3
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        04-22-2010, 05:43 PM
      #15
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Iseul    
    lol I'm chillin down in beaver county, like..smack in the middle of the western side XD and maybe lol coz I thought the chica that had Izzy (black tb, btw haha) looked like someone I've seen before too haha never mentioned it to her though :3
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Lol, yeah, I don't get much further south than I-80 or so. I'll keep an eye peeled for Izzy the black TB!
         
        04-22-2010, 05:51 PM
      #16
    Foal
    I keep leaning away from liver chestnut just because his colouring really does have a 'special' look to it and he's got a 'chrome-y' look to his coat. Definitely some QH in there, I've known many with that chrome sheen to the coat - it's gorgeous! I'm really leaning toward him having one creme gene - a smokey black (one creme gene on a black horse) which is sort of like a buckskin (which is one creme gene on a bay horse).

    Quote:
    Smoky black horses are sometimes called black buckskins or (especially in the UK) dilute blacks. These are black horses with a cream gene. They may be very difficult to identify and may look brown, bay, liver chestnut or faded black. The CCr allele is semi-dominant and dilutes red pigment to yellow in a single dose but has only a very subtle effect on black pigment.
    Google smokey black! Really hard to distinguish from Liver chestnut...true. But he's just special looking.
         
        04-22-2010, 05:52 PM
      #17
    Green Broke
    I vote for liver chestnut - my favorite color (don't tell Hunter that)
    He is beautiful!
         
        04-22-2010, 06:05 PM
      #18
    Foal
    Adding to my last post too.... You said someone told you once that he was "purebred palomino" which is silly, but if they knew he had palomino in his parentage, I.e. They meant he was bred from one or two palomino's, he truly could be a smokey black as a palomino would have a creme gene to pass on, no?
         
        04-22-2010, 06:10 PM
      #19
    Started
    Just got back from Google! That smokey black is interesting... the only thing that would discount Scout from that description is that he never really goes true black (that I've ever seen), and he doesn't have the amber eyes. The one that isn't blue is a fairly dark brown. Sometimes I wish he had one leg without a sock so I could see how dark he would get farther down the legs. He does have some little ermine dots on one coronet that are brown, not black. He's always a little lighter up between his hind legs, no matter what bizarre highlights and shades come and go on his face.

    Ha ha, thanks Hunter65!
         
        04-22-2010, 06:20 PM
      #20
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RoyalsRebel    
    Adding to my last post too.... You said someone told you once that he was "purebred palomino" which is silly, but if they knew he had palomino in his parentage, I.e. They meant he was bred from one or two palomino's, he truly could be a smokey black as a palomino would have a creme gene to pass on, no?
    You got me halfway through my last reply, lol.

    Yeah, that's what I was thinking. My source on the palomino bit is a tad iffy, and also claims to have ridden Scout as a stallion (which, timeline-wise makes no sense, if he was gelded at a reasonable age, which in the absence of studly behavior I'm assuming, this gal would have been 10 years old, and he 3 or less. Sounded fishy to me, hence my skepticism on the rest of what she tells me about him... The "purebred palomino" comment is fairly characteristic actually). If she is right about him being palomino-bred, though, a cream dilute looks like a definite possibility, based on the couple of hours of research I've done. I have asked her about the existence of papers for him, or if she knew a registry name, etc. for him, but she didn't know anything that direction. I'll have to ask my vet how to go about getting him color-tested. I don't know of any palomino studs in my area, but that doesn't mean a lot... I know there are probably a passel of backyard breeders in my area.
         

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