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Different Warmblood horses

This is a discussion on Different Warmblood horses within the Horse Breeds forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        05-04-2013, 10:05 PM
      #11
    Yearling
    My riding instructor has an Andalusian stallion and some mares. Home - Artesian Sands Equestrian Services
    He is gorgeous! She sometimes uses him for lunge line lessons, can't wait for that day!
         
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        05-05-2013, 06:56 PM
      #12
    Foal
    Trakehners are a BREED. The studbook does not allow any outside blood except for that of approved Thoroughbred and Arabian horses.

    So, while you can have a Trakehner inspected into other "breeds" studbooks, the reverse is not true. For example, I have a purebred Trakehner mare who is also approved Hanoverian for breeding. So, if bred to a Hanoverian approved stallion, the foal would be registered as Hanoverian. I would only be able to get part Trakehner papers on a foal out of her by a non-Trakehner (unless it is a TB or Arabian) stallion, and it would never be eligible for inspection into the Trakehner studbook, nor would its' future offspring.

    Similarly, Thoroughbred and Arabian stallions have to be inspected and approved and complete performance requirements just like a Trakehner stallion does, only their inspection scores must be HIGHER than a purebred Trakehner (same with the mares, the minimum approval scores are higher). After all, if you are adding "improvement blood" back into a gene pool, it should be exceptional. ;)
         
        05-05-2013, 09:47 PM
      #13
    Started
    I find that interesting Joie, what exactly are they looking for in the breed? I am just thinking of hybrid vigor (or something similar) to which allowing in "new blood" makes sense. I am just confused buy your mare's dual registry. How is she both?

    I think the water has been significantly muddied in recent years. The boom in warm blood popularity has led lots of folks to attach the name "warmblood" to anything that's big. I think it has also created a number of registries that seem to encourage the breeding of draft and light horses (which are basically grades). I just think its sort of that muddy world where you can't get 400 dollars for your TB but can get 40,000 for its foal out of a draft stud.

    I also wonder what folks thoughts are on highbred vigor in these cases. In theory, as I understand, they started breeding drafts to light horses to get horses that were substantial in bone but quick on feet. So, after you have a few generations of a pure breed you can run into those traits you bred for not being present or coming along with not-so great traits. Is there a benefit to opening up stud books to exceptional animals that are not not of that breed?
         
        05-05-2013, 10:30 PM
      #14
    Foal
    This explains a bit better than I can:

    THE TRAKEHNER BREED AND THE THOROUGHBRED

    But, essentially, it is to keep the breed pure, without resorting to other "warmblood" bloodlines. Breeding to a TB or Arab is not considered "outcrossing". The Trakehner gene pool is relatively small, as well, compared to the other warmbloods, because "outside blood" isn't allowed. Anyway...

    My mare isn't REGISTERED Hanoverian, but she IS approved for breeding by the AHS. SO, *if* I were to breed her to an approved Hanoverian, that FOAL could be registered Hanoverian. Most European Warmblood "breeds" (registries) allow outside blood, and are looking for a particular TYPE rather than breed lines, per se. I also have a Trakehner mare that is approved Westphalian. I just happen to only breed Trakehners and Anglo-Trakehners, because it is important to me to keep the breed what it was intended to be. I have nothing "against" other warmbloods, but Trakehners are my breed.

    As far as crossing a draft horse with a TB and calling it a warmblood, well...there is one born every day who will fall for that. It's akin to someone breeding "labradoodles" or something else and claiming to have a breed, not a mutt. IMO *breeds* are created through generations of successful matching and culling, looking for specific traits. You can't just take "hot" and "cold" and get warm, but every day I see ads for "warmbloods" advertised. It's sort of like the people who will cross ANY black mare, of any breed, with a Friesian. Just not smart, and, frankly, irresponsible.

    REAL Warmbloods, such as a Hanoverian, Oldenburg, etc. are more than just a mix of this and that, even if the bloodlines are a "mix" of blood originally from one region and another. There are breed (registry) standards, and the inspection process provides accountability. Horses cannot simply be bred to whatever and produce studbook eligible offspring.
    rookie likes this.
         
        05-05-2013, 11:51 PM
      #15
    Green Broke
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~~~~~~~~~~ My Trakehner.
         
        05-05-2013, 11:56 PM
      #16
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by toto    
    A warmblood is a horse that is mixed with a hot blooded horse(TB, arabian) and a cold blooded horse(most draft horses)
    GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


    Sorry, HUUUUUUGE pet peeve of mine.

    Warmbloods are specific breeds that have developed from selective breeding. Draft crosses are just that: Draft crosses.
    MsBHavin and Muppetgirl like this.
         
        05-06-2013, 10:12 AM
      #17
    Weanling
    I might also mention that a hot cross and cold cross does not actually make the horse an "American Warmblood." The American Warmblood is a Registration and/or Society. The Society does not take draft blood. The horse is simply a draft cross or other cross unless it is registered and a member of either the AWR or AWS. This is my biggest pet peeve. People saying they have an AWR or AWS horse when it is not actually registered! Register your horse first before you call it that!

    Don't get me wrong.... love draft crosses. Have one myself. She is not AWR or AWS. She is a draft cross.
         
        05-06-2013, 10:31 AM
      #18
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BaileyJo    
    I might also mention that a hot cross and cold cross does not actually make the horse an "American Warmblood." The American Warmblood is a Registration and/or Society. The Society does not take draft blood. The horse is simply a draft cross or other cross unless it is registered and a member of either the AWR or AWS. This is my biggest pet peeve. People saying they have an AWR or AWS horse when it is not actually registered! Register your horse first before you call it that!

    Don't get me wrong.... love draft crosses. Have one myself. She is not AWR or AWS. She is a draft cross.
    The American Warmblood SOCIETY most certainly DOES take draft blood:

    Warmbloods | Sport Horses | Dressage Horses

    The American Warmblood REGISTRY does not.
         
        05-06-2013, 10:37 AM
      #19
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joie    
    The American Warmblood SOCIETY most certainly DOES take draft blood:

    Warmbloods | Sport Horses | Dressage Horses

    The American Warmblood REGISTRY does not.
    My bad. Got the two mixed up. Still the same PET PEEVE.
         

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