Dorsal Stripe on a Black Horse? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 33 Old 03-07-2009, 10:32 PM
Cat
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There are two base colors for horses - black & red. Everything else are modifiers on top of those. A bay is actually a black horse with the agouti modifier.

Here is a link to UC Davis. $40 for the first test - you would want the agouti one.

Horse Coat Color

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post #12 of 33 Old 03-08-2009, 03:09 AM
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An old farmer once told me that true black horses don't turn brown-ish while being out in the sun all day. True?
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post #13 of 33 Old 03-08-2009, 03:36 AM
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^^^ False. I can't access my photos here at work (on my lunch break) but if you click the link in my sig go to my Friesian page and see the Friesian I had. FPS/FHANA registered Friesian, no debate she was BLACK. But if you look at the saddled photos, she appears bay due to drastic sun bleaching (darn Az summer sun!)
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post #14 of 33 Old 03-08-2009, 03:51 AM
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yes, that is true, although when it comes to horses, breeds, and colors people never agree... but there is a turn Black and what makes a horse a true black is when there out in the sun the dont look brown. here some pics.

Horses that look black, but in the sun are not.









Now this is a ture OLD black horse. and it was super bright out when i took these pics. if you dont think the bellow horse is black then by god what color is he?






True black horses are very rare, i my self have a black horse, is he a true black? while i wish he was he is in fact not, even though people beg to differ with me on just how black he is. he my horse i think i know what color he is. lol!!
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post #15 of 33 Old 03-08-2009, 04:44 AM
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There is no such thing as a 'true' black. ;) Some horses bleach and others don't; just like some people burn and others don't. Some people say it's a copper deficiency, and with at least 100 g. of copper they won't bleach as bad.

Bleaching happens ESPECIALLY when the horse sweats, so you could also suggest that horse's who sweat more, bleach more. And since not all horses sweat really bad... Who knows.

A lot of horse's bleach. Who's to say bay's aren't true bays if they bleach? ;)

A lot of show friesians, who are BLACK and can only be registered black, are kept in during the hottest part of the day. = no bleaching, woo! :)

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post #16 of 33 Old 03-08-2009, 09:19 AM
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This horse is not black. A true black has black skin which makes a dorsal stripe not possible. She probably was a dark bay at one point which might have looked black to you but even sun bleached, this horse was never a true black.
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post #17 of 33 Old 03-08-2009, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Cache, Don't most horses have black skin? Or am I mistaken?

The thing that gets me about Charity his how deep deep black her head is. I can usually call a dark bay horse in a New York Minute, but Charity has been harder to read for me. I might just cough up the 40 bucks and get her tested just to know. Im looking out the window at her right now and though her fur is bleached out, she still looks very black. The one thing that really convinces me she may be dark bay is the slight presence of front stockings.

I know about the Black and Brown families (read all up on that when i found out about Cremellos and Perlinos) The other thing that has me thrown for a loop is "Brown"... When I was a budding young horse person my instructors taught me a horse can never be "brown" in color (they are usually bay, chestnut, etc).. Its funny, because ive heard more people call bays "brown" but bays are part of the black family :p

Oh the hilarity of the horse world, someone else who posted on this thread said it right... no two horse people can agree on horse color, LOL!

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post #18 of 33 Old 03-08-2009, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrashwarmblood View Post
An old farmer once told me that true black horses don't turn brown-ish while being out in the sun all day. True?
Not true. Its called sun fading and genetically verified black horses have been shown to sun fade. The fading has more to do with diet, sun exposure, etc.

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post #19 of 33 Old 03-08-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy! View Post
I know about the Black and Brown families (read all up on that when i found out about Cremellos and Perlinos) The other thing that has me thrown for a loop is "Brown"... When I was a budding young horse person my instructors taught me a horse can never be "brown" in color (they are usually bay, chestnut, etc).. Its funny, because ive heard more people call bays "brown" but bays are part of the black family :p

Oh the hilarity of the horse world, someone else who posted on this thread said it right... no two horse people can agree on horse color, LOL!
There is a new theory on "brown". Its believed to be a variance on the agouti gene and thus related to bay. UC Davis hasn't come out with anything to verify it, but another color testing facility claims they have discovered and have a test for "brown" now. However, most color people are still waiting for the scientific paper for peer review that seems very slow coming - if it ever will.

But anyway - the theory is that while bay is the agouti gene on black that creates a horse with the black restricted to the points, that brown is an different version of the agouti that also works on black, but partially restricts it through the whole coat - making a mixture of red & black hairs creating the brown/seal brown look.

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post #20 of 33 Old 03-08-2009, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Cat, That makes a whole lot of sense... so a "brown" horse would be the same shade of brown as a traditional bay and/or dark bay, only there would be -no- black points... just brown all the way through. Very interesting!

TwilightArabians, I meant to say this a few posts ago but i forgot, lol. The first few pictures of horses you posted were very obviously bay to me... the tell tale brown around the bellies, etc.. the reason I am having such a hard time telling with Charity is because she had a very poor nutrition from her first home/breeder, which apparently lends to the fading out of black horses. The horse you posted after them was very very black, and thats more what Charity looks like in person.

I just came in from giving Charity a bath (Yay for nice weather!!) and had trouble locating her stocking again... BUT.. when I was going over her with the brush after she dried, there are select shorthair spots on her (from shedding out and from hair growing back from the rain rot) and it is appears very, very black. I guess the last oddball thing is the dorsal stripe... which probably makes her a bay, lol.

I'm still thinking very seriously about getting her tested just for my own peace of mind.. plus, its just one more thing to have in her files =)

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