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Greatest Thoroughbreds of all time

This is a discussion on Greatest Thoroughbreds of all time within the Horse Breeds forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • All-time greatest thoroughbred studs
  • Secretariat bred to test mare

 
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    11-27-2010, 04:45 PM
  #21
Foal
Here is my Top 10 List of Greatest Thoroughbreds of All Time:
  1. Secretariat
  2. Man O'War
  3. Citation
  4. Phar Lap
  5. Nijinsky II - England's Triple Crown winner in 1970
  6. Spectacular Bid
  7. Kelso
  8. Forego
  9. Count Fleet
  10. Round Table
     
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    11-27-2010, 09:34 PM
  #22
Green Broke
Another neat fact about Secretariat is that his heart was actually twice the size of a normal horse's heart, which many vet/experts think was what helped enable him to run each 1/4 mile faster than the last in the Belmont.
(He also won the Man O' War Stakes, lol)
     
    11-28-2010, 12:26 AM
  #23
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBigRed    
Man O'War seems to be the favorite of most. Yes, he was the Greatest horse in the first 1/2 of the 20th Century, but what about --- drumroll here ---- SECRETARIAT.

It is Secretariat who still olds the 1 1/2 mile World Record at 2:24, running each furlong at 12 seconds or less. No horse has come within 2 seconds of Secretariat's Belmont mark, and that Secretariat movie did a real harm(in my opinion) to people who have never seen the video of the real 1973 Belmont Stakes. Please watch it on Youtube.

This is my first post here, and my id is: Lovebigred, because SECRETARIAT, also known as Big Red, was the horse I fell in love with at age 10. But no horse since Secretariat has ever come close to his time record, and no one ever will.
Because he is in most of the famous racehorses lineages, is why he is also very famous. Many people went to his funeral(or was it his retirement?) Also they bred Secretariat to almost anything. And if it weren't for Man O' War Secretariat wouldn't be here.I have not seen the movie, and I still plan to.any horse people I know saw the movie and loved it.

What do mean it did real harm?(Remember its a movie, there will be facts that are wrong, or stuff exagerrated or just put in.but its basically a tribute to the legend.) I have seen the real 1973 Belmost Stakes race on youtube.
     
    11-28-2010, 01:38 AM
  #24
Foal
WildJessie - I don't mean to argue with you but ----

1st: Man O'War's funeral was on the radio and many people went to his funeral, yes, that is true.
I can appreciate your love for Man O'War.

2nd: They DID NOT breed Secretariat to "almost anything" as you think. Secretariat was bred to 40 mares a year at most, and he was in no way overbred. SECRETARIAT will live on in the Thoroughbred breed through his daughters, who were exceptional producers, especially of stallions. Storm Cat, the most successful Thoroughbred stallion in the past 20 years was out of Secretariat's daughter, Terlingua. Gone West, another very successful stallion was out of Secrettame. And, perhaps the stallion who is the savior of the Bold Ruler male line, A.P. INDY, was born from Weekend Surprise, another daughter of Secretariat.

3rd: How can you say that if it was not for Man O'War, Secretariat wouldn't be here? I am sorry, but that does not make sense. Secretariat has no Man O'War blood or breeding anywhere in his pedigree. In fact, Secretariat was produced almost exclusively from stallions imported to the USA after the year 1900. Only one of his lines, that of his sire, Bold Ruler, who's dam was Miss Disco, by Discovery, who was by Display, by Fair Play, has any American blood at all.

This is my first post on here, and I didn't want to start an arguement, but rightly so, I do have to put to rest any misconceptions of fact.

If anything, Secretariat will live on in more then just the Thoroughbred breed. There were 2 mares bred to Secretariat as test mares to see if he could get a mare in foal. Of those 2 mares, one was an Appaloosa, and that resulting foal - First Secretary, is in the Appaloosa Racing Hall of Fame. The 2nd foal was born from a Begium mare, and was named Statesman. Here's an article on Statesman: Statesman - gelding by Secretariat

Back to the movie. The Belmont Stakes scenes were filmed at Keeneland racetrack in Lexington. The way the Belmont was filmed it is(in my opinion) close to impossible to understand what Secretariat really did in that Belmont Stakes of 1973. Anyone who watches the race in the movie could not fully understand what happened by just watching the movie itself. That is my opinion.
     
    11-28-2010, 04:26 AM
  #25
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBigRed    
1st: Man O'War's funeral was on the radio and many people went to his funeral, yes, that is true.
I can appreciate your love for Man O'War.

2nd: They DID NOT breed Secretariat to "almost anything" as you think. Secretariat was bred to 40 mares a year at most, and he was in no way overbred. SECRETARIAT will live on in the Thoroughbred breed through his daughters, who were exceptional producers, especially of stallions. Storm Cat, the most successful Thoroughbred stallion in the past 20 years was out of Secretariat's daughter, Terlingua. Gone West, another very successful stallion was out of Secrettame. And, perhaps the stallion who is the savior of the Bold Ruler male line, A.P. INDY, was born from Weekend Surprise, another daughter of Secretariat.

3rd: How can you say that if it was not for Man O'War, Secretariat wouldn't be here? I am sorry, but that does not make sense. Secretariat has no Man O'War blood or breeding anywhere in his pedigree. In fact, Secretariat was produced almost exclusively from stallions imported to the USA after the year 1900. Only one of his lines, that of his sire, Bold Ruler, who's dam was Miss Disco, by Discovery, who was by Display, by Fair Play, has any American blood at all.

This is my first post on here, and I didn't want to start an arguement, but rightly so, I do have to put to rest any misconceptions of fact.

If anything, Secretariat will live on in more then just the Thoroughbred breed. There were 2 mares bred to Secretariat as test mares to see if he could get a mare in foal. Of those 2 mares, one was an Appaloosa, and that resulting foal - First Secretary, is in the Appaloosa Racing Hall of Fame. The 2nd foal was born from a Begium mare, and was named Statesman. Here's an article on Statesman: Statesman - gelding by Secretariat

Back to the movie. The Belmont Stakes scenes were filmed at Keeneland racetrack in Lexington. The way the Belmont was filmed it is(in my opinion) close to impossible to understand what Secretariat really did in that Belmont Stakes of 1973. Anyone who watches the race in the movie could not fully understand what happened by just watching the movie itself. That is my opinion.
I don't think I was intentionally saying he wasn't a great racehorse, because he was. I was just stating what others have told me and what I have read about him. Don't think I said it was fact either. And I found your post rather offensive. Also he was bred with pretty much anything, I never said he was overbred. I also never stated that none of his offspring was horrible and that he failed as a sire. I know very well he was a great producer of champions. I am a fan as well.

When I said if it weren't for Man O' War Secretariat wouldn't be here, I actually meant to go and edit it(Because I knew something wasn't right about that statement) and say he paved the way for him and many other racehorses. He is and will be one of the greatest racehorses of all time and helped pave the way for other racing legends. Secretariat is not a direct descendant of Man O' War. However, through his sire Bold Ruler via his paternal granddam, he is a descendant of Fair Play, who was Man O' War's sire. Therefore they are related, but not closely.

Sometimes they have to film certain scenes at certain places due to many reasons. Maybe they had to film it at that track because they couldn't make the horse(or horses) replicate what he did at the Belmont. I don't think any horse can like he did at the Belmont that year, and they would be pushing the horse to run like that and possibly hurting the horse. So that is probably one of the reasons they chose a different track. If I am not mistaken Belmont is a rather long track.

And I think anyone who was interested to learn more about Secretariat would look him up and read about him. But remember, it was a movie, it was made for entertainment, and to pay tribute to a incredible racehorse. Don't expect a movie to get everything right about something, there are bound to mistakes in the accuracy of the facts. People enjoyed it and I am rather glad they made a movie on him, to show that was a great racehorse and wanted to show that to people, and bring back a little piece of history.

I think you might like this it has to do with Secretariat:
Horse is great great granddaughter of Secretariat | ksdk.com | St. Louis, MO
     
    11-28-2010, 05:49 AM
  #26
Yearling
Track record says it all

THE greatest racehorse of all time has to be.....


KINCSEM ( 1874 - 1887 )

I know this horse isn't american but her record is beyond compare

54 starts and 54 wins

Major wins include
Hungarian Two Thousand Guineas (1877)
Hungarian One Thousand Guineas (1877)
Hungarian Oaks (1877)
Hungarian Autumn Oaks (1877, 1878, 1879)
Hungarian St. Leger (1877)
Austrian Derby (1877)
Austrian Kaiserpreis (1877)
Grosser Preis von Hanover (1877)
Grosser Preis von Baden (1877, 1878, 1879)
Staatspreis Eister Classe (1878)
Goodwood Cup (1878)
Grand Prix de Deauville (1878)

Please don't forget that back in the 1870's 1880's the Hungarian empire was one of the richest and most powerful in the world and none of the hungarian races were lightweights , and the record includes overseas victories in Germany, England , France , Austria etc

I know Man 'O War was impressive but I don't think that Kincsems record can ever be beaten.
     
    11-28-2010, 09:55 AM
  #27
Foal
ZENYATTA hands down is my all time favorite racehorse. And Barbaro, would have one the Triple Corwn if it waqsn't for his injury....which was so sad.
     
    11-28-2010, 12:59 PM
  #28
Green Broke
Lol it's so funny because the Man O' War/Secretariat debate has been going on for years!
It's one thing for fans to decide who is the greatest because fans have a tendancy to stick with their favorites no matter what lol, it's another for experts to do so because they take into account everything the horse did in its career for their time, how long they raced, their breeding records as well as racing records & how long they stood for. They never take just one spectacular performance & deem them the greatest.

One of the most unfortunate things, I think, is that Man O' War's owner practically refused to breed him to any mares apart from his own & on occasion, his niece's. Still, even with such a small selection at his disposal he managed to sire many champions.

Also, though it is too bad he never won the Triple Crown, one has to remember that back before the 1930's there was no such thing in America as the Triple Crown yet, though they had been throwing around the idea for some time (the original 3 races were supposed to be the Withers Stakes, Belmont Stakes & Travers Stakes, which Man O' War did win all of those as a 3-yr-old).
     
    11-28-2010, 04:11 PM
  #29
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildJessie    
I don't think I was intentionally saying he wasn't a great racehorse, because he was. I was just stating what others have told me and what I have read about him. Don't think I said it was fact either. And I found your post rather offensive. Also he was bred with pretty much anything, I never said he was overbred. I also never stated that none of his offspring was horrible and that he failed as a sire. I know very well he was a great producer of champions. I am a fan as well.

When I said if it weren't for Man O' War Secretariat wouldn't be here, I actually meant to go and edit it(Because I knew something wasn't right about that statement) and say he paved the way for him and many other racehorses. He is and will be one of the greatest racehorses of all time and helped pave the way for other racing legends. Secretariat is not a direct descendant of Man O' War. However, through his sire Bold Ruler via his paternal granddam, he is a descendant of Fair Play, who was Man O' War's sire. Therefore they are related, but not closely.

Sometimes they have to film certain scenes at certain places due to many reasons. Maybe they had to film it at that track because they couldn't make the horse(or horses) replicate what he did at the Belmont. I don't think any horse can like he did at the Belmont that year, and they would be pushing the horse to run like that and possibly hurting the horse. So that is probably one of the reasons they chose a different track. If I am not mistaken Belmont is a rather long track.

And I think anyone who was interested to learn more about Secretariat would look him up and read about him. But remember, it was a movie, it was made for entertainment, and to pay tribute to a incredible racehorse. Don't expect a movie to get everything right about something, there are bound to mistakes in the accuracy of the facts. People enjoyed it and I am rather glad they made a movie on him, to show that was a great racehorse and wanted to show that to people, and bring back a little piece of history.

I think you might like this it has to do with Secretariat:
Horse is great great granddaughter of Secretariat | ksdk.com | St. Louis, MO
Honestly, I found your original post offensive too, so let's just let it go.
     
    11-28-2010, 04:11 PM
  #30
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilruffian    
Lol it's so funny because the Man O' War/Secretariat debate has been going on for years!
It's one thing for fans to decide who is the greatest because fans have a tendancy to stick with their favorites no matter what lol, it's another for experts to do so because they take into account everything the horse did in its career for their time, how long they raced, their breeding records as well as racing records & how long they stood for. They never take just one spectacular performance & deem them the greatest.

One of the most unfortunate things, I think, is that Man O' War's owner practically refused to breed him to any mares apart from his own & on occasion, his niece's. Still, even with such a small selection at his disposal he managed to sire many champions.

Also, though it is too bad he never won the Triple Crown, one has to remember that back before the 1930's there was no such thing in America as the Triple Crown yet, though they had been throwing around the idea for some time (the original 3 races were supposed to be the Withers Stakes, Belmont Stakes & Travers Stakes, which Man O' War did win all of those as a 3-yr-old).

Aren't most racehorses also decended from Eclipse(or am I thinking of another horse?)? Also another great thoroughbred racehorse, I forgot to add him to my list.
     

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