The History of Pure Breeds - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 176 Old 08-15-2011, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Druydess View Post
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I never said Fjords had Arab in them. That's sorta like saying Arabs have Fjord in them. I said most modern American horses have Arab in them.
Two completely different points of origin.
I didn't quote you, so that most likely means I wasn't directing my comment at you

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post #12 of 176 Old 08-15-2011, 11:47 PM
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How are you reckoning that? Were there not hardy, thick, short-of-stature ponies in China and Russia far apart from the "Oriental" breeds--and how would the latter end up in Norway? And if you're counting everything "Oriental" as an Arabian, how does that distinguish from things like the Akhal-Teke, or the gaited Marwari?

From the Fjord registry:

Quote:
The Norwegian Fjord Horse is one of the world’s oldest and purest breeds. It is believed that the original Fjord Horse migrated to Norway and was domesticated over 4,000 years ago. Archaeological excavations at Viking burial sites indicate the Fjord Horse has been selectively bred for 2,000 years.
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post #13 of 176 Old 08-15-2011, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Druydess View Post
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I never said Fjords had Arab in them. That's sorta like saying Arabs have Fjord in them. I said most modern American horses have Arab in them.
Two completely different points of origin.
She wasn't directing that at you I said that since the Fjord studbook only closed a hundred or so years ago, it couldn't be discounted.

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post #14 of 176 Old 08-15-2011, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
From the Fjord registry:

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The Norwegian Fjord Horse is one of the world’s oldest and purest breeds. It is believed that the original Fjord Horse migrated to Norway and was domesticated over 4,000 years ago. Archaeological excavations at Viking burial sites indicate the Fjord Horse has been selectively bred for 2,000 years.

Lies! What they really meant to say was Fjords are all arabs with crazy hair! Lol

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post #15 of 176 Old 08-15-2011, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Chiilaa View Post
Look at a Perchie for example. You might not see the Arab in there, doesn't mean it isn't there. In fact, Percheron's have a quite large percentage of Arab blood.

The only question in my mind is when you can say the Arabian was a breed, and not just a horse of oriental type. Because if you count the oriental type as Arab, then every breed that is not a Przewalkski has Arab influence, including the Icelandic.
Good point, but I believe the Icelandic was a combination of breeds resulting from the Exmoor and Shetlands taken to Iceland from England and Scotland by the Vikings, so they are not Asian in origin.. Arab is one of the three major modern horse predecessors.. The Przewalski is a second.. I have to think on the third, but I believe the Barb is a percentage of that mix...

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post #16 of 176 Old 08-15-2011, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
How are you reckoning that? Were there not hardy, thick, short-of-stature ponies in China and Russia far apart from the "Oriental" breeds--and how would the latter end up in Norway? And if you're counting everything "Oriental" as an Arabian, how does that distinguish from things like the Akhal-Teke, or the gaited Marwari?

From the Fjord registry:
If you subscribe to the theory of four original 'types' of horse, surely you can see that there would have been interbreeding. There is too much differentiation between the Fjord and the Przewalkski to accept there is no outside blood added. Especially since there were documented Fjords that were not dun before the stud book closed. As for how they ended up in Norway - how did any horse at all end up there?

As for counting anything 'oriental' as Arabian, I was merely pointing out that there was the 'oriental' type before the Arabian was a breed as such. There is no doubt in my mind that the Akhal-Teke and Marwari have Arab blood, I would challenge you to show me a non-isolated breed that doesn't have recognised Arabian in the blood somewhere.

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post #17 of 176 Old 08-15-2011, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Druydess View Post
Good point, but I believe the Icelandic was a combination of breeds resulting from the Exmoor and Shetlands taken to Iceland from England and Scotland by the Vikings, so they are not Asian in origin.. Arab is one of the three major modern horse predecessors.. The Przewalski is a second.. I have to think on the third, but I believe the Barb is a percentage of that mix...
There were four theorised 'types' of ancient horse - Przewalkski is one, Tarpan another (extinct), Oriental (Arabs are the living descent but I don't believe they are an exact replica, only very very close), and heavy. Of the four types, only the Przewalkski exists in the form it has for all of time. The Tarpan has been recreated but it is from modern breeds.

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post #18 of 176 Old 08-16-2011, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chiilaa View Post
She wasn't directing that at you I said that since the Fjord studbook only closed a hundred or so years ago, it couldn't be discounted.
I suppose it's possible... the Norse had amazing trade routes, with exquisitely crafted metalwork, and were superior seafarers, traveling as far as Greece and Africa. It wouldn't surprise me that they would import a few horses, or take some home with them...

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post #19 of 176 Old 08-16-2011, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Chiilaa View Post
There were four theorised 'types' of ancient horse - Przewalkski is one, Tarpan another (extinct), Oriental (Arabs are the living descent but I don't believe they are an exact replica, only very very close), and heavy. Of the four types, only the Przewalkski exists in the form it has for all of time. The Tarpan has been recreated but it is from modern breeds.
Yes, Tarpan is one of the types... In my years, it has gone back and forth between three and four..

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post #20 of 176 Old 08-16-2011, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Druydess View Post
I suppose it's possible... the Norse had amazing trade routes, with exquisitely crafted metalwork, and were superior seafarers, traveling as far as Greece and Africa. It wouldn't surprise me that they would import a few horses, or take some home with them...
I would be more surprised if they didn't. Viking sees pretty girl, he takes her. Viking sees rich crops, he takes them. Viking sees pretty poneh and leaves it behind?
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