The History of Pure Breeds - Page 3
 
 

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The History of Pure Breeds

This is a discussion on The History of Pure Breeds within the Horse Breeds forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        08-16-2011, 12:08 AM
      #21
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    If you subscribe to the theory of four original 'types' of horse, surely you can see that there would have been interbreeding. There is too much differentiation between the Fjord and the Przewalkski to accept there is no outside blood added. Especially since there were documented Fjords that were not dun before the stud book closed. As for how they ended up in Norway - how did any horse at all end up there?

    As for counting anything 'oriental' as Arabian, I was merely pointing out that there was the 'oriental' type before the Arabian was a breed as such. There is no doubt in my mind that the Akhal-Teke and Marwari have Arab blood, I would challenge you to show me a non-isolated breed that doesn't have recognised Arabian in the blood somewhere.
    I see your point.
    There may have been interbreeding. But time and availability would have to be taken into account. Horses were not imported as they are today, and if and when they were, the little impact a few horses would have made would have been very soon bred out.
    But I do agree that Arab blood is probably in nearly every horse on the planet ..whether we see it or not :)
         
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        08-16-2011, 12:10 AM
      #22
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    As for counting anything 'oriental' as Arabian, I was merely pointing out that there was the 'oriental' type before the Arabian was a breed as such. There is no doubt in my mind that the Akhal-Teke and Marwari have Arab blood, I would challenge you to show me a non-isolated breed that doesn't have recognised Arabian in the blood somewhere.
    Certainly the Akhal-Teke and Marwari have crossbred with Arabians, but then it becomes a chicken-and-egg thing: Who influenced whom? Who came first? What is the "original Oriental?"
         
        08-16-2011, 12:12 AM
      #23
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    Certainly the Akhal-Teke and Marwari have crossbred with Arabians, but then it becomes a chicken-and-egg thing: Who influenced whom? Who came first? What is the "original Oriental?"

    Clearly the Arabian........... Better publicists
         
        08-16-2011, 12:12 AM
      #24
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    I would be more surprised if they didn't. Viking sees pretty girl, he takes her. Viking sees rich crops, he takes them. Viking sees pretty poneh and leaves it behind?
    I agree..
    I imagine the Northerners, with baldrics and ******* swords used to cold climates, may have a harder time of it fighting for horses in the desert against really pissed men with scimitars on fast Arabians used to fighting in nomadic raids though..
         
        08-16-2011, 06:02 AM
      #25
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Druydess    
    Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I never said Fjords had Arab in them. That's sorta like saying Arabs have Fjord in them. I said most modern American horses have Arab in them.
    Two completely different points of origin.
    She would be correcting me are fjords saddle horses? I have no experience with the breed?
         
        08-16-2011, 06:38 AM
      #26
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MsBHavin    
    I doubt Fjords have arab in there. I'll ask my breeder friend and see what she says ;)
    Get me a documented pedigree for a Fjord that can be traced back many generations and I will most likely be able to show you where the Arabian blood comes in ;) I promise to share what I find.....

    Denise Gainey
         
        08-16-2011, 07:08 AM
      #27
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Druydess    
    Horses, having been introduced to North America, not being indigenous, owe their ancestry in large part to the Spanish Barb. Arabian blood later refined untold numbers of horses in existence, including the draft..i.e- the Percheron as one result..
    If you are going to use history, use all of it, not just the part of it that suits your agenda.

    Horses are most certainly indigenous to North America - North America is where horses evolved. Arabians are descended from North American stock just as ALL breeds and ALL horses are...
         
        08-16-2011, 08:12 PM
      #28
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Faceman    
    If you are going to use history, use all of it, not just the part of it that suits your agenda.

    Horses are most certainly indigenous to North America - North America is where horses evolved. Arabians are descended from North American stock just as ALL breeds and ALL horses are...
    Modern horses are not indigenous- things change a bit in 13, 000 - 2 million years..

    Modern horses, zebras, and asses belong to the genus Equus, the only surviving genus in a once diverse family, the Equidae. Based on fossil records, the genus appears to have originated in North America about 4 million years ago and spread to Eurasia (presumably by crossing the Bering land bridge) 2 to 3 million years ago. Following that original emigration, there were additional westward migrations to Asia and return migrations back to North America, as well as several extinctions of Equus species in North America.

    The last prehistoric North American horses died out between 13,000 and 11,000 years ago, at the end of the Pleistocene, but by then Equus had spread to Asia, Europe, and Africa.

    Animals that on paleontological grounds could be recognized as subspecies of the modern horse originated in North America between 1 million and 2 million years ago. When Linnaeus coined the species name, E. Caballus, however, he only had the domesticated animal in mind. Its closest wild ancestor may have been the tarpan, often classified as E. Ferus; there is no evidence, though, that the tarpan was a different species. In any case the domesticated horse probably did not arise at a single place and time, but was bred from several wild varieties by Eurasian herders.
         
        08-16-2011, 08:20 PM
      #29
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HGEsquire    
    Get me a documented pedigree for a Fjord that can be traced back many generations and I will most likely be able to show you where the Arabian blood comes in ;) I promise to share what I find.....

    Denise Gainey
    If anyone can find it, you certainly could.. would love to see the results of that search..
         
        08-16-2011, 08:58 PM
      #30
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Druydess    
    Modern horses are not indigenous- things change a bit in 13, 000 - 2 million years..

    Modern horses, zebras, and asses belong to the genus Equus, the only surviving genus in a once diverse family, the Equidae. Based on fossil records, the genus appears to have originated in North America about 4 million years ago and spread to Eurasia (presumably by crossing the Bering land bridge) 2 to 3 million years ago. Following that original emigration, there were additional westward migrations to Asia and return migrations back to North America, as well as several extinctions of Equus species in North America.

    The last prehistoric North American horses died out between 13,000 and 11,000 years ago, at the end of the Pleistocene, but by then Equus had spread to Asia, Europe, and Africa.

    Animals that on paleontological grounds could be recognized as subspecies of the modern horse originated in North America between 1 million and 2 million years ago. When Linnaeus coined the species name, E. Caballus, however, he only had the domesticated animal in mind. Its closest wild ancestor may have been the tarpan, often classified as E. Ferus; there is no evidence, though, that the tarpan was a different species. In any case the domesticated horse probably did not arise at a single place and time, but was bred from several wild varieties by Eurasian herders.
    Well thanks for taking the trouble to surf the net a bit and prove my point. As I said, horses are indigenous to North America, and all horses originated from North American stock.

    And by the way, horses have not changed consequentially in 15,000 years other than being tampered with by man. The horse of 15,000 years ago was an Equus just as today - otherwise known as a modern horse. Once again, if you are going to use history, use all of it - not just enough to accomplish your agenda. Heck, if you want to carry it to the extreme, your Arabs are not "modern" horses in the literal sense of the word as they are a very old breed.

    My overall point, and it is true, is that the perception that Arabian horses are the root of everything is completely false...Arabs have their roots in other breeds just as all horses do. Just because those breeds are no longer around is not relevant.

    Arabs are not the beginning, nor are they the end. Is the glass half full or is it half empty? Is the Arab used to improve other breeds as you say, or have Arabs been refined to become faster and stronger by mixing in other breeds to develop Thoroughbreds, Quarterhorses, and others that are far superior at their given task than Arabs?
         

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